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Server Time: 11/20/2009 7:34:55 PM PACIFIC |
 Confused with Low-Limit Holdem, Jeffy, 11. Dec 2002 00:15 | ||
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| I am a poker beginer. I play Low-limit Hold'em, so i read acticles and books try to improve quickly. BUT, I AM really confused with some concepts that the poker experts give. The one confused me most is this: Can anyone beat the low-limit Holdem? Some experts would say that you can beat the Low limit holdem if you play tight plus if you can play this way and that way and when you play good enough then you will become a consistant winner and you can considering moving up...... Neverthless some other experts would give advices like this: 'Because the low-limit games are normally very loose, so it's almost impossible to beat, your AA, AK and other golden hands would be frequently be crushed down in pieces by hands like 28 offsuit or 57 offsuit, it's more a game of luck, the typical low limit players dont play with the "way" they "should", or the "way" which we good players think "should", so we pros play high-limit only , we never touch low limit anymore ever since we moved up long time ago, Low-limit Holdem is really terfible......' So, it sounds like low-limit is even harder than high-limit, and as a beginner, should i quit playing poker or should i moving up to learn the "true high-limit holdem" directly? The Poor and Confused Jeff | ||
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| Re: Confused with Low-Limit Holdem, Jacob, 11. Dec 2002 03:49 | ||
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| Lowlimit can be beaten...don't move up till you have done this and made a fat roll. I feel relaxed when I play with money won from poker thats why I hate to go bankrupt at a site cause Ill have to bring in money from my bank or from another site both suck cause of the psychology...it is a nice feeling to build up at the lowerlimits and then go higher like building a company or something lol. regards, jacob | ||
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| Re: Confused with Low-Limit Holdem, Jerome, 7. Jan 2003 08:22 | ||
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| sad... Jeffy I think you'll have better luck beat'n your dick... stick to what you know little buddy ;-D Now get the fuck out of my face "who is it?" Jerome | ||
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| Re: Confused with Low-Limit Holdem, Mark Walkley, 11. Dec 2002 05:26 | ||
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| I would say that many of the books are not appropriate for low-limit loose games. Top pair is not a "golden hand", it will still win sometimes but often you will be shown 2 pair or better at the end by people who are chasing you. Some pieces of advice I got were: Not to play top pair strongly from the turn if it doesnt improve, check-call if it's not being raised and fold if a raising war breaks out and there are several people still in. Beware of *any* possible draws, even if it meant someone called a raise preflop with 57o. I dont mean fold but just be cautious. Don't raise to try and make people fold, most likely they wont. Raise to build the pot with nut drawing hands if you have enough callers. Mike Caro has been quoted as saying "never raise preflop" in these types of games. Probably you should not raise as much as you might think. You should prefer cards which can draw to powerful hands, eg. JTs, over cards that make top pair top kicker, eg. AJo. Dont play overcards after the flop, if you hit one it will quite often make someone else 2 pair. I guess it means playing somewhat passively yourself, though you should be betting your strong draws because you will have plenty of callers. Good luck. Mark. on 11. Dec 2002 00:15 Jeffy wrote: > I am a poker beginer. I play Low-limit Hold'em, so i read acticles and books try > to improve quickly. > > BUT, I AM really confused with some concepts that the poker experts give. > > The one confused me most is this: > Can anyone beat the low-limit Holdem? > > Some experts would say that you can beat the Low limit holdem if you play tight > plus if you can play this way and that way and when you play good enough then > you will become a consistant winner and you can considering moving up...... > > Neverthless some other experts would give advices like this: > > 'Because the low-limit games are normally very loose, so it's almost impossible > to beat, your AA, AK and other golden hands would be frequently be crushed down > in pieces by hands like 28 offsuit or 57 offsuit, it's more a game of luck, the > typical low limit players dont play with the "way" they "should", or the "way" > which we good players think "should", so we pros play high-limit only , we > never touch low limit anymore ever since we moved up long time ago, Low-limit > Holdem is really terfible......' > > So, it sounds like low-limit is even harder than high-limit, and as a beginner, > should i quit playing poker or should i moving up to learn the "true high-limit > holdem" directly? > > > The Poor and Confused Jeff > > > | ||
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| Re: Confused with Low-Limit Holdem, Big Frank, 11. Dec 2002 05:56 | ||
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| I think the overall premise is that in a low limit game, luck plays a factor more of a time than in higher limits and therefore you will have bigger swings in your bankroll. BUT, solid play WILL be rewarded in the long run as luck will play out less and less over time. Additionally, less people chase a bad hand at higher limits since playing a 9-T s in low limit for 2 raises pre flop might be worth it with many players (6 bucks) because of the favorable pot odds, but at higher limits, 20-40, putting in 60 bucks to chase is a lot more to think about and as such, less people do, and therefore, your pot odds are lower. | ||
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| Re: Confused with Low-Limit Holdem, jeff, 11. Dec 2002 06:47 | ||
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| Thanks Frank, Mark, and Jacob, your advices are more clear, these are the knowledge us beginners need. Generally, experts like to talk things about middle and high limit, but majority players are beginners, i believe it would be a great sale if any expert write a book like' How to beat $1/2 and 2/4 holdem'. Thank you very much The feel better jeff | ||
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| Re: Confused with Low-Limit Holdem, JasonHoldEm, 11. Dec 2002 15:46 | ||
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| Someone already did, check-out Lee Jones' "Winning Low Limit Holdem" I just got my copy in the mail...too bad it's final's week :-( jasonHoldEm | ||
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| Re: Confused with Low-Limit Holdem, Mark, 11. Dec 2002 07:46 | ||
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| The biggest diffference ( i think) between high and low limit hold'em games is at the low limits, if your table is full of really loose (bad) players, the nut hand will be made much more frequently. You have to adjust for this. (e.g. Top pair will still win, but not nearly as often.) You have to be very patient at the low-limits and ONLY play VERY strong hands. Mediocre/ medium strength hands will not make you money. You may have to fold 100-200 hands in a row! Once you are patient, understand pot odds and try to read the players hands. (this is hard becasue they play such trash). Read Lee Jones, Lou Krieger, and MIke Caro's advice for low limits. It is beatable. Mark | ||
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| Re: Confused with Low-Limit Holdem, SmellsLikeVictory, 11. Dec 2002 07:55 | ||
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| C'mon, LL is not harder than HL. I welcome all the callers with their 82o when I have AA. In the long run, that guy's money is in my pocket. Sure, I'm going to get AA run down more often when half the table sees every flop and will lose more pots, but when you win it's a much bigger pot (relatively speaking). With the looser play, you can loosen up a bit yourself and limp with hands you'd never be able to get away with in a tougher, tighter HL game where it's heads up on the flop half the time. As the other poster says, bluff less and value bet more. The trouble with LL games isn't so much the looseness=luck factor, it's the rake. Rake in terms of % of each pot is larger in LL than HL, so this can really grind you down. | ||
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| Re: Confused with Low-Limit Holdem, RickyK, 15. Dec 2002 09:57 | ||
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| Sums it all up, rake will kill you in low limit. If it was impossible to beat due to hand selection then poker must be a game of luck not skill :) AA being called by the rubbish you see at LLHE will stil win you money, it's just that the rake will then take it off you. If you want some advice stick to tourneys only at LL as you only pay the house once ( at the start ). And good luck ! on 11. Dec 2002 07:55 SmellsLikeVictory wrote: > C'mon, LL is not harder than HL. I welcome all the callers with their 82o when I > have AA. In the long run, that guy's money is in my pocket. Sure, I'm going to get > AA run down more often when half the table sees every flop and will lose more pots, > but when you win it's a much bigger pot (relatively speaking). > The trouble with LL games isn't so much the looseness=luck factor, it's the rake. > Rake in terms of % of each pot is larger in LL than HL, so this can really grind you > down. | ||
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| Re: Confused with Low-Limit Holdem, jim grass, 13. Dec 2002 15:30 | ||
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| Jeffy I usaully prefer drawing hands in these games...They must contain a card nine and higher and preferably suited...If theres many bets going in and many playing to the end then the reality is you`ll just have to pay to see the flop...At least you`ll be drawing to very strong holdings...Whereas flopping pairs are likely to be second and or third best most times. jim on 11. Dec 2002 00:15 Jeffy wrote: > I am a poker beginer. I play Low-limit Hold'em, so i read acticles and books try > to improve quickly. > > BUT, I AM really confused with some concepts that the poker experts give. > > The one confused me most is this: > Can anyone beat the low-limit Holdem? > > Some experts would say that you can beat the Low limit holdem if you play tight > plus if you can play this way and that way and when you play good enough then > you will become a consistant winner and you can considering moving up...... > > Neverthless some other experts would give advices like this: > > 'Because the low-limit games are normally very loose, so it's almost impossible > to beat, your AA, AK and other golden hands would be frequently be crushed down > in pieces by hands like 28 offsuit or 57 offsuit, it's more a game of luck, the > typical low limit players dont play with the "way" they "should", or the "way" > which we good players think "should", so we pros play high-limit only , we > never touch low limit anymore ever since we moved up long time ago, Low-limit > Holdem is really terfible......' > > So, it sounds like low-limit is even harder than high-limit, and as a beginner, > should i quit playing poker or should i moving up to learn the "true high-limit > holdem" directly? > > > The Poor and Confused Jeff > > > | ||
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| Re: Confused with Low-Limit Holdem, Jeremy, 16. Dec 2002 03:01 | ||
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| Jeff, Check out the section in David Slansky and Mason Malmouth's book Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players titiled Part Four: Playing in Loose Games. I am a low-limit player and found this section extremely helpful. I often reread this section because I occaisianally overlook many of the valuable concepts explained here. Also keep track of your playing history...if you play online look into purchasing a program called pokertracker. It's fairily cheap and worth the money. It is great for analyzing your gameplay. It has shown me where I may have been "leaking" money away. Also I understand low-limit can sometimes be very frustrating and being frustrated at the table can cause you to make mistakes you may not normally make. The other players at the table may see this and smell oppurtunity. I found the best thing for this is to take a break after a bad beat even if I don't think it has effected me. It took me a while to realize it but I would go on tilt and not even notice. A lot of the pros say you need to be disiplined and not let yourself go on tilt. If a break is what it takes then i say do it...there will be plenty of other hands. Best of luck. Jeremy | ||
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| Re: Confused with Low-Limit Holdem, brain, 6. Jan 2003 10:39 | ||
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| jeremy, good points. i was playing LL last nite and cleaned up on people that were obviously on tilt. and in the past baad beats have really destroyed me, i would even suggest quitting on real bad beats. i always seem to tilt when it happens. but if your up a lot i would just take a break. | ||
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| Re: Confused with Low-Limit Holdem, Laredo, 16. Dec 2002 20:07 | ||
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| Jeff, don't quit. It is just like any other game...you have to get in the table time to see all that can happen. | ||
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| Re: Confused with Low-Limit Holdem, Lee Vaughn, 17. Dec 2002 15:07 | ||
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| LLHE can be beaten, especially online where you don't have tokes and jackpots to take away from your profit. Can you make a limit playing LLHE? That is different. Again, I would say yes but not a very good one. Your AA/KK etc will get cracked sometimes because of all the chasers in the pots, but the times your hands hold up should more than make up for it. Here's an experience I had last week: I usually play on Ultimatebet but I just started playing a bit on Party Poker. The players on Party seem to be a lot looser than what I am used to on UB, so my first couple of sessions I had a few more good hands chased down than what I was used to. On my third session I was play 50c/$1 and I had pocket aces. I caught a third ace on the flop and ended up winning a pot that was something like $30. This more than made up for the couple of times my aces were outdrawn. Hope that helps... Lee | ||
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