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Server Time: 11/20/2009 7:04:12 PM PACIFIC |
 Hello, Some simple questions., JasonHoldEm, 2. Dec 2002 20:54 | ||
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| Hello everyone, I'm a relative newbie to the poker world, I've been playing hold'em for about a month or two now and I'm really enjoying it. I've been playing the microlimit games at planet for the last couple weeks, I'm slightly down (original buy-in was $35 currently I'm at $27), mostly because I'm trying too hard and playing junk too often. Actually, it's a little funny because I'm winning at the nickel tables (up around $30) at the quarter tables (down $40). But I am learning, and if it costs me a few bucks to get some experience than so be it. I just ordered Lee Jones' book from Amazon. I'm a college student so I'm going to have to put poker on hold for the next couple of weeks (finals), but I'm looking forward to my month long winter break to really study up on the game and start turning a "profit" (at the micro limits can you really call it a profit? :-) ). As for my questions: How long should I play at a given limit before moving up? And I know you'll probably say until you're a winner, but what I mean is how can I tell that I'm a winner at the given limit? I've read some of the old posts here and I've never really seen anyone mention pokerrroom.com (which is also rarely mentioned on RGP, or anywhere else for that matter). I realize they are relatively small compared to the big sites, but I started there and I really enjoy their interface. Is pokerroom.com a good ("safe") site? Have any of you played there? Problems? Softness of the games? Once I progress through the micro limits at planet I'm planning on starting playing "for real" ($1/$2) at pokerroom, I'd just like to know if it's a trusted site. I'm sure I'll have more questions as things progress...can't wait to get my copy of Jones book, next week...right in the middle of finals :-( Thanks in advance, Jason JsonHoldEm - planet jasonHoldEm - pokerroom | ||
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| Re: Hello, Some simple questions., Mark, 3. Dec 2002 04:55 | ||
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| Hi Jason Take shots at the bigger levels whenever you can afford to lose, but don't keep playing if you're losing. Most people play the micro and low-limits like a lottery, but 99.999% of them are loosers. The larger the limits, the better the players will be. You may stay at the lower limits for months or years, until you get comfortable. If you log a string of good wins take a shot at 3-6 or 5-10. But understand, just because you logged a couple of wins does not mean you can beat the game. Variance plays a big part at the low and micro limits. I go through big swings at the $5-10 tables. I also play at pokerroom occasionally, at like it. I don't know how safe it is, but i've never had any problems. I started at that site before they had real money tables, it was only play money. They worked hard to get the interface user friendly and work out some bugs. I think it safe, but thats only from my own experience. Jones' book is great for your first one. But you'll need alot more than one book to succeed. It takes money to make money. Buy as many books as you can. Use the money you win to buy books and videos even if it means not building a bankroll. This will enable you to win much more in the long run. Mark | ||
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| Re: Hello, Some simple questions., Lin Sherman, 4. Dec 2002 02:56 | ||
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| The only way to find out if you're a winner is to keep accurate records. There are some inexpensive software programs that will help you do that. Check sites like cardplayer.com and conjelco.com to see what's available. When to move up is a function of bankroll size and confidence. It's important to have enough of both. Players who consistently play above their bankrolls or who play in games where they feel nervous or outgunned are going to lose. Listen to the little voice inside you if it tells you that you're not ready to move up yet. Lin | ||
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| Re: Hello, Some simple questions., Vincent Merlino, 4. Dec 2002 19:35 | ||
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| I suggest you play in some live games where you can actually see your opponents. I like internet poker but it seems theres a lot more bluffing going on and because you can't see JoeSchmoe32 you have no idea where hes at. If you don't have a card room near your school get some of your college buddies involved. Thats how I did it at college. Invited over a bunch of kids to play a $5 no limit hold-em tournament winner takes all. Its fun and also a learning experience. P.S. Lee Jones's book is the first book I read and I haven't read it since. There are some good parts in the book but if you follow that strategy you'll be sitting at the table waiting for Aces or Kings all night. I like Sklansky's books especially his section on Loose Games. | ||
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| Re: Hello, Some simple questions., Snorbolus, 5. Dec 2002 08:42 | ||
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| Vincent, I think that you should read Lee Jones' book again. The advice is very sound and well presented. The strategy is not quite as tight as you suggest. However, it is specifically intended for loose passive games, where there are many callers who chase to much. In such games tight is often right. A careful reading of Sklansky's HFAP section on loose games reveals very similar advice, although it is less clearly stated. Snorbolus > P.S. Lee Jones's book is the first book I read and I haven't read it since. There > are some good parts in the book but if you follow that strategy you'll be sitting at > the table waiting for Aces or Kings all night. I like Sklansky's books especially his > section on Loose Games. | ||
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| Re: Hello, Some simple questions., Vincent Merlino, 5. Dec 2002 12:41 | ||
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| Are you Lee Jones's agent? Just kidding. I know some people swear by his book but in loose games big hands get crushed constantly. Example: Yesterday I sit down at a game and post a middle position blind and get dealt K K. Everyone folds to me and the dealer says "Option?" as if he knows that I'm going to check. I raise of course. The guy behind me already had the chips in his hand to call so he looked at me and gave me the look that all bad low-limit players have. You know the one where he says to himself "Well I was going to call for $5 so why not call for twice as much!" He calls and the small blind calls. Flop comes 4c 8c 2d. The small blind checks I bet and everyone calls. The turn produces the 6s. I bet, the guy behind me raises, small blind cold calls and I call. Now what the hell does the guy behind me have? The only thing I can put him on is a set of sixes. River brings a Qh. I check, guy behind me bets small blind calls, I call. You know what he had? The Nuts. Thats right. He called a raise with 5 7 offsuit. I throw my Kings face up, in a disgusted manner of course, only to find out that the small blind was sitting there with pocket Aces. I almost got up and smacked the guy for not re-raising me before the flop. The point is that Lee's book says get your money in there when you have the best of it and get it out when you don't which is sound advice. The problem is the way he identifies "having the best of it". If you have AK raise preflop and the flop comes A-2-9. In general this is a good flop for you but if you get raised on the flop forget it. Where Mr Jones says to bet your hand all the way I say muck it against a typical low-limit player. You are playing against a player that I see all the time in low-limit games. I call them the "Ace Masters". Any Ace to them is the nuts no matter what kicker. Guess what, with that flop someone has A-9 or A-2 and your in trouble. Now you don't have the best of it but it seems like you would against a typical opponent right? In my opinion low-limit games are anything but typical. | ||
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| Re: Hello, Some simple questions., Mark, 5. Dec 2002 14:13 | ||
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| Vincent I feel your frustration, I go through the exact same thing. But what you have to realize is you want those players in your game. Jones is right when he says get you money in when its good. what most players don't read (or forget ) is that you should raise more often with solid hands. When your re-raised suspect you beaten, unless the opponent often bluff raises, very few low-limit players do. And when you do make a hand, it will pay you back for a couple of bad beats. In fact, believe you want 4 to 6 "low-limit" loose players at your table, and 3 other good players. This seem to be the game make-up where those really bad/loose players don't draw out too much. If you get 9 of loose players at a table, they all seem to take turns getting lucky against a solid, tight-aggressive opponent. I know its hard to find these kinds of tables but give it a try. Check raise more often out of early position, the loose passive players hate that. Mark | ||
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| Re: Hello, Some simple questions., Snorbolus, 5. Dec 2002 14:39 | ||
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| Yes, I was trying not to be to gushing in my comments about Lee Jones’ book. It was the first poker book that I read. By virtue of that fact it was the single most useful. All of the books that I have so far read have helped my game though. It is true that big starting hands frequently loose to really shocking trash in loose games. It stings when this happens. However, it is important to remember that, even though they usually won’t hold up, the times that they do will more than make up for all the times that they don’t. You don’t need to take my word for this. Just download poker calculator (it is freeware, but unfortunately I don’t have the URL with me right now), and run KK or AK, for instance, against multiple weak hands. Top pair with a good kicker is a profitable hand even in very loose (and passive), hold’em games. I suspect that this is because of the passiveness. They are passive, you are not. They don’t take you for as much as they could when they do suck out, but you charge them the chance to try. Sorry about your bad beat though. The thing with the small blind having aces is interesting. I have also noticed that many low limit players love to slowplay. I have been beaten by full houses that have check called all the way to the river before. It is always a bit of a shock when they showdown, but remember that if you had something that you weren’t going to lay down then they have saved you money by slowplaying. Snorbolus on 5. Dec 2002 12:41 Vincent Merlino wrote: > Are you Lee Jones's agent? Just kidding. I know some people swear by his book but in loose > games big hands get crushed constantly. > > Example: Yesterday I sit down at a game and post a middle position blind and get dealt K K. > Everyone folds to me and the dealer says "Option?" as if he knows that I'm going to check. I > raise of course. The guy behind me already had the chips in his hand to call so he looked at me > and gave me the look that all bad low-limit players have. You know the one where he says to > himself "Well I was going to call for $5 so why not call for twice as much!" He calls and the > small blind calls. > > Flop comes 4c 8c 2d. The small blind checks I bet and everyone calls. The turn produces the > 6s. I bet, the guy behind me raises, small blind cold calls and I call. Now what the hell does > the guy behind me have? The only thing I can put him on is a set of sixes. River brings a Qh. I > check, guy behind me bets small blind calls, I call. You know what he had? The Nuts. Thats > right. He called a raise with 5 7 offsuit. I throw my Kings face up, in a disgusted manner of > course, only to find out that the small blind was sitting there with pocket Aces. I almost got > up and smacked the guy for not re-raising me before the flop. > > The point is that Lee's book says get your money in there when you have the best of it and get > it out when you don't which is sound advice. The problem is the way he identifies "having the > best of it". If you have AK raise preflop and the flop comes A-2-9. In general this is a good > flop for you but if you get raised on the flop forget it. Where Mr Jones says to bet your hand > all the way I say muck it against a typical low-limit player. You are playing against a player > that I see all the time in low-limit games. I call them the "Ace Masters". Any Ace to them is > the nuts no matter what kicker. Guess what, with that flop someone has A-9 or A-2 and your in > trouble. Now you don't have the best of it but it seems like you would against a typical > opponent right? In my opinion low-limit games are anything but typical. | ||
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