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Server Time: 8/30/2008 12:49:04 AM PACIFIC |
 Caro Professional Hold'em report, mickblueeyes, 1. Dec 2002 09:32 | ||
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| I frequent several Poker forums, including twoplustwo. I feel that a better educated poker player is a better poker player. I was reading a bit on the forum under the "books and software" heading and I was shocked. The thread in question was regarding Mason Malmuth's review on "Hold'em Excellence". I personally thought the book was great for beginners, especially when coupled with "More Hold'em Excellence" and "Winning Low-Limit Hold'em". I commented on several books that I thought were good for Hold'em players, one of which was Caro's Professional Hold'em report. Then I got the response from Malmuth that shocked me. He said he rated the report a 3 out of 10 and said that if people followed Mike Caro's advice, they would lose all thier money. I replied that I disagreed. Here's what I find to be interesting, yet I dare not post it there because I would surely be banned. Mason Malmuth has given every book published by twoplustwo publishing a "10 out of 10" rating, yet has the audacity to slam other people's books who are very respected in the poker community. Pure nepotism at its best. I have always felt that Malmuth and Sklansky were "lofty", but I attributed it to being very intellectual. Perhaps it is nothing more than arrogance. | ||
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| Re: Caro Professional Hold'em report, mickblueeyes, 1. Dec 2002 09:33 | ||
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| You can find Malmuth's reviews here http://www.kimberg.com/poker/reviews.html I once found them helpful, but now question thier validity based on the biased way he reviews books. | ||
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| Re: Caro Professional Hold'em report, Mike Caro, 2. Dec 2002 10:59 | ||
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| Hi, Mick -- In this case, I think Mason Malmuth is sincere (though misguided) in his evaluation. For years, we had a public quarrel (initiated by him) over the merits of the Professional Hold 'em Report. I often pointed out that the guidelines in the charts differed from the advice in the accompanying text and that the text SAID SO. The charts were experimental. They balanced strategies by emphasizing deception. I believe they are excellent and they have fared well in actual trials (simulations) done by me and reported by others. However, Malmuth believes the standards are too liberal. I believe they WOULD BE too liberal if games are played the way he believes them to be (much tighter than the games I typically play in), but that these guidelines are very powerful when used in typical games against mostly weak to moderatle-skilled opponents. They probably hold their own against stronger opposition, too, but are not optimized for that. I have taken them off the market (almost), because I don't like the constant bickering. I thought I had thoroughly and convincingly defended the Report, but the attacks never stopped. Since the guidelines are experimental, anyway, and there are many ways to create a lively, balanced strategy, I just don't need to waste so much time defending such a low-profit item. This is especially true since my future books and writings will far surpass the Report in scope. To me (and some others who know the story), the attacks appeared unseemly, though. Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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| Re: Caro Professional Hold'em report, mickblueeyes, 2. Dec 2002 12:13 | ||
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| Thank you for responding Mike. I tried to defend you on twoplustwo, but I am afraid I didn't do a very good job. I am glad to hear both sides of the story now. I anxiously anticipate your future books! IF you will let me beg for a moment--please, please, please finish your book on Odds! I would love to read more on the subject, especially written by the mad genius himself! The only odds book I know of on the market is the Michael Petriv book "Hold'em odds". BTW, Amazon.com is still taking orders for your book and shows an actual sales rank. I tried to order it, but am still on the waiting list. | ||
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| Re: Caro Professional Hold'em report, Mike Caro, 2. Dec 2002 12:27 | ||
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| on 2. Dec 2002 12:13 mickblueeyes wrote: > Thank you for responding Mike. I tried to defend you on twoplustwo, but I am afraid I > didn't do a very good job. I am glad to hear both sides of the story now. > > I anxiously anticipate your future books! IF you will let me beg for a moment--please, > please, please finish your book on Odds! I would love to read more on the subject, > especially written by the mad genius himself! The only odds book I know of on the market > is the Michael Petriv book "Hold'em odds". BTW, Amazon.com is still taking orders for your > book and shows an actual sales rank. I tried to order it, but am still on the waiting > list. Hi, Mick -- I WILL do the odds book, but I'm not sure when. That's funny about Amazon having a waiting list for the book. It was first announced 18 years ago! Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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| Re: Caro Professional Hold'em report, Dynasty, 2. Dec 2002 19:23 | ||
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| When can we expect these future books to be published? You've been mentioning them for quite some time. | ||
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| Re: Caro Professional Hold'em report, Lin Sherman, 4. Dec 2002 03:48 | ||
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| I have to point out that HPFAP (which Malmuh wrote no matter what Sklansky says) treats loose games as an after thought, and doesn't really tell you how to play optimally in them. Mason is a mid-limit Vegas pro and the mid-limit Vegas games are reputed to be generally tougher and tighter than corresponding games elsewhere (Roy could probably comment on this). When it comes to playing in loose games, I would be more inclined to follow Caro's advice as he lives and plays in SoCal, which is the loose game capital of the world. Lin | ||
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| Re: Caro Professional Hold'em report, jEROME95, 13. Dec 2002 03:59 | ||
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| the truth comes out... jEROME on 1. Dec 2002 09:32 mickblueeyes wrote: > I frequent several Poker forums, including twoplustwo. I feel that a better > educated poker player is a better poker player. I was reading a bit on the forum > under the "books and software" heading and I was shocked. > > The thread in question was regarding Mason Malmuth's review on "Hold'em > Excellence". I personally thought the book was great for beginners, especially > when coupled with "More Hold'em Excellence" and "Winning Low-Limit Hold'em". > > I commented on several books that I thought were good for Hold'em players, one > of which was Caro's Professional Hold'em report. Then I got the response from > Malmuth that shocked me. > > He said he rated the report a 3 out of 10 and said that if people followed Mike > Caro's advice, they would lose all thier money. I replied that I disagreed. > > Here's what I find to be interesting, yet I dare not post it there because I > would surely be banned. Mason Malmuth has given every book published by > twoplustwo publishing a "10 out of 10" rating, yet has the audacity to slam > other people's books who are very respected in the poker community. Pure > nepotism at its best. I have always felt that Malmuth and Sklansky were "lofty", > but I attributed it to being very intellectual. Perhaps it is nothing more than > arrogance. | ||
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