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Server Time: 8/30/2008 12:17:08 AM PACIFIC |
 NLHE 1 table satelite play, Hatchet Harry, 25. Nov 2002 15:17 | ||
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| I'm stuck. I like playing 1 table sattelite tournements online. I remain in profit playing them. However when I reach up to the higher limit sattelite's the general style of play changes quite dramatically. My tendancy is to bet aggresively when holding premium hands. When I beleive i'm ahead I'm quite happy to raise the pot. However when moving up limits, most players seem to limp in or put in small raises (IE 1 or 2x BB) on what I deem to be premium holdings. Am I missing something, is this style of play advisable in the early rounds? This type of play tends to put me off balance and as I can't easily identify holdings, also I have forced myself into thinking that my style of play gives away the fact that i've come from the little leagues. This effects my confidence and hence my results. I've ducked back down to the lower leagues while I wait for Bob Caffione's book to arrive, but any help in the meantime would be much appreciated. Cheers HH | ||
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| Re: NLHE 1 table satelite play, Lee Vaughn, 25. Nov 2002 18:05 | ||
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| I have noticed the same thing, but I think it is a mistake on the other players part. From my understanding it is correct to raise 3-4x the BB, and if you are first in and decide to play you should generally come in with a raise rather than just call. By consistently making your raises this same amount, I think it makes it harder to read your hands. If your oppenents (or you) are betting and raising different amounts it might be possible to read their hands better once you get a feel for what the pattern means. I hesitate to give this example for fear that someone will read it and correct their play, but I have just started to play tournaments on Poker Pages where they have that online poker school. I have noticed several players that will consistently bet 1/5 the pot after the flop when they have four to flush or straight. My guess is they are students in the school who have learned the basics of pot odds, but not much about reading plays. From what you say, it sounds like you are on the right track. Lee | ||
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| Re: NLHE 1 table satelite play, Daniel Negreanu, 25. Nov 2002 18:10 | ||
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| Any time you change limits, whether it be higher or lower, there will be adjustments you'll need to make. From reading what you wrote, I'm guessing that you like to make big bets and raises? Well, the one obvious problem with that, is when you run into a hand, you're usually committed. Your opponents in the bigger buy in satellites are staying aggressive, WITHOUT committing themselves. If they run into a hand, they can get away from it with minimal damage. Having said that, your strategy isn't necessarily BAD. In fact, if you feel as though your opponents play a little better than you do, your strategy of overbetting pots will effectively neutralize their edge over you a little. Lastly, depending on how big the blinds are in relation to the stack sizes, you may be laying your opponents too big a price by over betting pots. Here's an extreme example of what I mean: Say you played in a 10 handed tournament with a million in chips, and blinds of 1$-2$. If you got KK for example, and bet your whole stack, you'd be laying 1,000,000 to win...3. Conversely, if you were playing in that same tournament with 1$-2$ blinds and say, $10 on front of you, moving all-in with 10-10 you'd be laying only 10 to win 3. Despite having a much weaker hand (10-10) vs (K-K) moving all in is clearly a better play in the second example. Daniel Negreanu www.fullcontactpoker.com | ||
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| Re: NLHE 1 table satelite play, Dave Scharf, 25. Nov 2002 19:26 | ||
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| Codicil: I am not the player the that Daniel is, but I try. I phrase what Daniel is saying as an "escape valve." In big bet poker bet an a amount that will accomlish the desired goal, whilst still leaving chips in your stack to make an escape if you need to. So, for instance, if I have a stack of 20 and a player that I consider capable of being out of line makes it 3 to go and I am looking to re-steal, I will tend to make it 9 or so... That is offering him odds of 2-1 on his call. There will be lots of hands that he will fold. If he comes back over the top I can CHOOSE to call or fold. The point is that if you think you are capable of making good decisions... then give yourself the opportunity to make those decisions. If you make better decisions than your opponent then you will have to put him and you to the test as many times as you can and your better decision making will win the day. As a side note, if your raise will leave an amount in your stack that will FORCE you to call if he comes over the top then you might as well put it all in to put maximum pressure on him. As a side side note... if you are a blind then you might not want to shove it all in since preserving a small amount to bet out on the flop with will give him two chance to fold his hand. Dave Scharf www.canadianpoker.com | ||
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| Re: NLHE 1 table satelite play, Maverick, 27. Nov 2002 10:13 | ||
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| I think it's rather myopic to claim that Moving in with KK is laying $1million to win $3. You are also hoping to maybe win the $1million from someone else. Not to also mention preventing a <$1million loss when you let someone in for cheap and they suck out on you or when they come over the top on you putting you to a decision and making you muck. | ||
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| Re: NLHE 1 table satelite play, Dave Scharf, 27. Nov 2002 10:27 | ||
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| The point is, of course that the risk v. reward formula is WAY WAY WAY out of wack if you insist on pushing $1 million all in to attack $3 in blinds. Are you expecting QQ to call? JJ? NOT very likely. In any event, it is a thought exercise for illusrtation not intended as a legit example. I actually had this situation in a tournament once (sort of). A VERY drunk young man would take a re-buy for T1000 and then ROUTINELY shove all-in every hand against blinds of T30. It didn't take me long to amass a HUGE stack be routinely calling his random cards with mt better than average cards. Dave Scharf www.canadianpoker.com | ||
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| Re: NLHE 1 table satelite play, jim grass, 26. Nov 2002 14:37 | ||
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| Harry the whole idea is to keep the opposition off balance..These boys play to win and they play with thier head and then thier stack.. Some tables will use different strategies depending on the makeup of the tables. You not only want to maximize your stack but limit your losses.. I feel better seeing 5/7 of my hand for two bb`s and then creating a tactic that will maximize the pot.. jim on 25. Nov 2002 15:17 Hatchet Harry wrote: > I'm stuck. > > I like playing 1 table sattelite tournements online. I remain in profit playing > them. However when I reach up to the higher limit sattelite's the general style > of play changes quite dramatically. > > My tendancy is to bet aggresively when holding premium hands. When I beleive > i'm ahead I'm quite happy to raise the pot. However when moving up limits, most > players seem to limp in or put in small raises (IE 1 or 2x BB) on what I deem to > be premium holdings. > > Am I missing something, is this style of play advisable in the early rounds? > This type of play tends to put me off balance and as I can't easily identify > holdings, also I have forced myself into thinking that my style of play gives > away the fact that i've come from the little leagues. This effects my confidence > and hence my results. I've ducked back down to the lower leagues while I wait > for Bob Caffione's book to arrive, but any help in the meantime would be much > appreciated. > > Cheers > HH | ||
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| Re: NLHE 1 table satelite play, Hatchet Harry, 28. Nov 2002 13:36 | ||
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| Thanks guy's Sterling advice as I've come to expect on here. Whilst all advice was helpful, I think the main thing i'm suffering from is overcommiting to the pot. I think in the lower limit games you can get away with this as your nearly alway's being called with marginal / unplayable hands, so the wins outweigh the beats, but as I move up I know that I am alway's putting myself in a difficult decision making position if someone comes over the top or cold calls. Whilst i don't wanna remove the 'hatchet' from my style, I think i'll try and keep from sharpening it for a while, hopefully i'm doing alot of other things correctly so this should make the results more consistent. Cheers again. HH | ||
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