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Server Time: 8/28/2008 1:02:15 AM PACIFIC |
 another pot limit hand, CapnD, 12. Nov 2002 11:07 | ||
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| 2/4 blinds pot limit game. I have 33 and limp UTG. Couple of callers, and the button raises 6 to a straight up 10. I call, as does everyone else. 5 players, 50 bucks. Flop comes 883 with 2 diamonds. I like it, but then again I dont like it. Everybody checks to the button, who bets 20 bucks. The button is a really bad pot-limit player, but he is also unpredictable. I'm pretty sure he has a big pair or maybe AK simply because he has really tight pre-flop raising standards. BB folds, and its up to me. What's my play? | ||
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| Re: another pot limit hand, Andrew Wells, 12. Nov 2002 11:25 | ||
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| I would call and give someone with a diamond draw good odds to get there on the turn. If someone checkraises the button, reraise maximum. If you get one or more callers and the turn is non-threatening, lead with a bet which offers a little less than 4:1 on the pot. Again in the event of a raise, come over the top hard. Suppose no one else calls the button on the flop, and an overcard comes on the turn. Then I would bet about half the pot trying to induce the button to raise. If he just calls, prepare to go pot on the river. If there is no overcard on the turn, I might bet small or check. I think you want to do what you can to induce a big bet from the button, rather than represent an eight if it's heads up on the turn. | ||
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| Re: another pot limit hand, limon, 12. Nov 2002 12:38 | ||
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| I bet out with the underfull into a raiser. big hands are for big pots and with the money deep and the pot small a bet out is the play here. the raiser is likely to have an overpair and now hes gonna come over you. at that point you can either call and set up a river payoff or set him in deep if you think hell call. a bet out looks weak, he might even come over you w/ak if he's wild. anywho, i ask again, where is this game? thanks. | ||
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| Re: another pot limit hand, CapnD, 12. Nov 2002 14:17 | ||
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| Its in a private club in Dallas. | ||
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| Re: another pot limit hand, Mark, 12. Nov 2002 12:56 | ||
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| I've never played pot limit and have not read much on it, but is 33 playable UTG? I assume the answer is yes due to the fact that the blinds are so small compared to the POSSIBLE pot size. Is this correct? | ||
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| Re: another pot limit hand, CapnD, 12. Nov 2002 14:16 | ||
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| on 12. Nov 2002 12:56 Mark wrote: > I've never played pot limit and have not read much on it, but is 33 playable UTG? I > assume the answer is yes due to the fact that the blinds are so small compared to the > POSSIBLE pot size. Is this correct? It depends on the game. I have played in many pot-limit games where all the action is pre-flop and you really can't play much besides big pairs in early postion pre-flop. But this game is very loose-passive pre-flop and you can pretty much play any pair, any suited ace, and even suited connectors UTG. In this game, I would say that probably 1 out of 6 or 7 hands is raised pre-flop and its usually not a huge pre-flop raise. | ||
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| Re: another pot limit hand, Andrew Wells, 12. Nov 2002 14:41 | ||
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| In a loose passive pot limit game, it's all about implied odds after the flop. Any small pocket pair is a reasonable limping hand if you don't expect the big raise preflop. Flopping a set has the potential of making you money winner for that session. It is also an easy hand to get away from when the flop misses. | ||
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| Re: another pot limit hand, Zeno, 12. Nov 2002 17:17 | ||
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| I agree with Limon, that you should have bet out into the riser, an amount of about half the pot or so. Your hand is probably well disguised for now and checking is not the best play. As you did check then calling is probably best, and then following Mr. Well's very sound advice should bring in the money for you. Sounds like a fun game. Enjoy it. (with alot of folks in preflop someone could have 87s, 89s, T8s, or something similar if it is a lose-passive game, so if a middle-card comes you can get in big trouble). -Zeno | ||
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| Re: another pot limit hand, CapnD, 13. Nov 2002 07:58 | ||
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| I called the 20, everybody else folded. Turn was a 6 of diamonds putting 3 diamonds on board. I check, button bets 40. I check-raise the full pot and he calls. 340 in the pot. River is a 2 and I bet $150. Button folds and shows his red aces. I muck without showing. Does anybody not think his bet on the turn was horrible? What about his call of my check-raise? I probably should have took control of the hand by betting out on the flop, but this player was weak. Against an aggressive player, I definitely would have led out. But again, by leading on the flop and turn I don't let him have a free card which he should have taken on the turn. on 12. Nov 2002 11:07 CapnD wrote: > 2/4 blinds pot limit game. I have 33 and limp UTG. Couple of callers, and the > button raises 6 to a straight up 10. I call, as does everyone else. 5 players, > 50 bucks. > > Flop comes 883 with 2 diamonds. I like it, but then again I dont like it. > > Everybody checks to the button, who bets 20 bucks. The button is a really bad > pot-limit player, but he is also unpredictable. I'm pretty sure he has a big > pair or maybe AK simply because he has really tight pre-flop raising standards. > BB folds, and its up to me. > > What's my play? | ||
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| Re: another pot limit hand, Andrew Wells, 13. Nov 2002 20:05 | ||
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| I don't think his bet on the turn is as bad as it seems. He knows you can't have the nut flush, and he may think he has up to eleven outs if he doesn't have the best hand. In case aces are no good, he's hoping you'll just call again if you have an eight, fearing he made his flush. In which case there are nine diamonds and two aces to look for. Or if you made the flush on the turn, there are seven good diamonds plus the missing aces and eights. The only strength you have shown is to call his bet on the flop getting 3.5:1. He could easily put you on the diamond draw since it would appear you had implied odds to catch on the turn and get paid for a medium sized bet. Thus his bet on the turn is an amount he could call if you had led out with it. He expects you to fold or be intimidated into another call if you had something like Td9d or 9h8h. When you spoiled that idea with the pot sized checkraise, you should have taken it down right there. Calling your move on the turn is the horrible mistake. Taking 2:1 odds with only two reasonably sure outs and a bunch of cards that would then be puting more in on the river with the board paired, takes deep pockets and a distain for money. I doubt you have had any need to make pot sized semibluff checkraises in such a soft game, so you probably have not shown anything but the goods when paid off in that situation for the year. Maybe he has a psychological need to put a beat on you, since it should be obvious that his pocket pair is in serious trouble. | ||
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| Re: another pot limit hand, Lowlife, 19. Nov 2002 05:42 | ||
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| Just for an alternative opinion - I would be mucking those 3's under the gunto a raise in all likelihood. There's nothing I hate more than ending up with set under set. Call me a pussy, but thats me. | ||
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| Re: another pot limit hand, Andrew Wells, 19. Nov 2002 22:12 | ||
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| You have a valid point. CapnD didn't give us any indication of stack sizes, but if I couldn't get hurt by a large stack then I'm calling the relatively small button raise. This is also a regular private game where one gets to know the other players very well. I assume CapnD didn't fear any reraise from the other three players in front of him. I don't know how much semibluffing there is in this game, but from this and other posts I gather that the game is soft. I also assume (having recognized that the 883 flop could be a problem though already full) CapnD can get away from a small set, even if it looks like possibly the best hand. Suppose the flop came KQ3 instead of 883, and is bet UTG for 25. One early player calls, and the button makes it 100 to go with those pocket aces. It is tough to lay down what could be the best hand in this spot, yet I probably would. | ||
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