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Server Time: 10/11/2008 6:04:36 AM PACIFIC |
 pot limit hold'em hand, CapnD, 11. Nov 2002 09:19 | ||
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| 2/4 blinds, pot limit game. I have KK on the button. Been playing for about 4 hours, am up about 400, and I haven't shown down a hand yet. My stack is the biggest at the table at around 1200. 2 limpers to me, I raise the pot ($22 total). BB and 1 limper call. $72 in the pot. Limper has about $500 in front of him. Flop comes down Q83 rainbow. Checked to me, I bet the pot. Limper calls. $216 in the pot now. Turn brings a 6. Checked to me, I bet the pot, and the limper check-raises me all in for a raise of $200. So the pot is 848 and I will have to call another 200. So I am getting a little over 4-1 odds on my call. Have I played it right so far, or should I have played it different? Should I call on the turn? CapnD | ||
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| Re: pot limit hold'em hand, 3Kings, 11. Nov 2002 11:25 | ||
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| Since you are on the button and no one has shown any threat, I think your betting is fine. Was this player the type to slow-play a set or would they have bet out on the flop or turn? Would this player have raised pre-flop with 88? I'm thinking this player probably has 33 or Q8 and was waiting for your turn bet to raise so that you almost felt obliged to call. If he has Q8, you have 8 outs which is about 4 to 1 which is what your pot odds are. If he has 33, you have two outs. . You said you hadn't shown a hand in 4 hours and were winning, he may have top pair and think you are bluffing. Figuring he was going to call you on the river anyway, he raises the turn and hopes you fold. Since you don't have to worry about a bluff on the river, I call him and hope for the third K | ||
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| Re: pot limit hold'em hand, CapnD, 11. Nov 2002 15:57 | ||
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| When he raises only 200, he knows I almost have to call with any decent hand so I know he has a good hand. Also, this guy always check-raises with good hands and bets out with mediocre hands. He's extremely predictable, which is nice in a pot-limit game. I called because he over-plays top pair and if he has 2 pair I have some outs. | ||
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| results and my thoughts, CapnD, 11. Nov 2002 15:52 | ||
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| I know this player pretty well. He will call a pot size bet on the flop with any pair. Then on the turn if he catches 2 pair or better he will check-raise. If he doesn't catch 2 pair or better he will many times take a shot at the pot on the turn by betting into you. It works pretty well because a lot of times he gets a free turn card because a lot of players wont fire the second barrel on the turn and he can bluff them out on the river. I knew he had a real hand when he check-raised the turn, but I was hoping it was a Q with a good kicker. The odds are that I'm behind, but I still feel I have to call. Fortunately, he had AQ. The river was a blank and my Kings were good. I personally think his re-raise was bad poker because there is not a single hand that he beats that I would call his raise with. Maybe KQ, but no way do I play KQ that hard and fast. And there aren't many hands I would bet the turn with that don't beat him. If I was him, I would have made a play for the pot on the flop and given up if played back at. I still think I probably played it wrong. After I bet the turn, I was pot commited. That is not the situation I should have been in. | ||
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| Re: results and my thoughts, limon, 11. Nov 2002 16:20 | ||
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| i put him on 33, but thats the beauty of big bet you can only make a good play in person. this guy must be a big loser if he calls raises out of position w/ aq. BTW, where is this game. thanks. | ||
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| Re: results and my thoughts, 3Kings, 11. Nov 2002 19:55 | ||
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| As I said in my previous post, if he knows he is going to call your bet on the river, he might as well check-raise you on the turn hoping you will fold. So I think his check-raise was a good idea IF he was going to call the river; | ||
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| Re: results and my thoughts, Charles Kincy, 12. Nov 2002 04:31 | ||
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| on 11. Nov 2002 15:52 CapnD wrote: > I still think I probably played it wrong. After I bet the turn, I was pot commited. > That is not the situation I should have been in. This is the key point, the Eureka of big-bet poker--don' t get pot-committed with a marginal hand like an overpair. If you underbet, you can get your opponent afraid of pot-committing. You might also cause opponent to overbet a good hand, allowing you to escape cheaply. I don't know. I just sorta pulled all that out of my ass because it sounds good. I suck at big-bet poker and I shouldn't play it at all. But it's so much fun! | ||
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| Re: pot limit hold'em hand, Andrew Wells, 11. Nov 2002 19:06 | ||
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| Keep in mind you don't have to make a pot size bet on the flop with such a raggedy board. There can't be any major drawing hands that you need to charge full price or drive out. You can afford to give 3:1 instead of 2:1 odds here. It just happened you got someone committed with the top pair, next time you may be up against a set. It did actually work out better for you in that you avoided seeing a proportionately larger checkraise, which would have made it significantly harder not to muck on the turn. Yet I still think it may be correct to make a bet on the high side of half the pot on the flop. As you said, you knew your man, and that means much more than any cold analysis after the fact. | ||
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| Re: pot limit hold'em hand, Charles Kincy, 12. Nov 2002 04:27 | ||
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| You must be careful with going pot-pot with overpairs, because you can make unpaired hands money favorites against AA if you are not careful. For instance. Player A, LP: KQs, open-raises something Player B, Btn: AA, raises something Player A: Calls Flop: K x x A: Check B: Bets pot A: Calls Turn: Q --or-- a blank A: Check B: Bets pot A: Raises pot Uh-oh, now what do you do if you're B? You've set yourself up for a nasty little bluff, too, one you have no hope of beating unless opponent has a tell. What if you're pot committed? And if opponent decides not to bluff and just fold, you make very little with your aces, but he stomps you with his KQs when you do put him on a bluff and decide to pot-commit. So what do you do? Underbet the flop and turn so your opponent can't stick it to you so hard? Seems reasonable to me. | ||
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