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Server Time: 12/3/2008 9:36:30 PM PACIFIC |
 Comments on 5-10 hands, 3Kings, 5. Nov 2002 08:12 | ||
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| I played these hands yesterday at the local casino. The table was loose passive (5 callers almost no raises). 1) I have Ad5d one from cutoff. Early position player raises while saying "this usually gets me in trouble". It was directed at the guy next to him but I overheard it. Being a raise or fold situation, I decided to give him some trouble and 3-bet. The button calls as does the raiser. Flop comes 4 7 8 rainbow. I bet and everyone calls. Turn comes 10. Everyone checks and river comes 6. I bet and only the button calls. Button has Ah5h and we split the pot. The raiser played about 5 out of 6 hands but I hadn't seen him raise up to that point. Would anyone else have done the same thing? 2) Early limper, I call with Ac6c, 3 callers behind me as well as the small blind. 7 peoplein the pot total. Flop comes 6d 8h 9d. SB and BB check, limper bets, I raise and everyone folds to the limper who calls. The turn is Jh. Limper checks and I bet. He hesitates and decides to call. I'm pretty sure he has a 9 as if he was on a flush draw (or straight) he wouldn't have hesitated to call River is 3h. Because I put him on a 9, I know I can't win unless he folds so I bet. He calls and wins with Q9o. 3) I have 5-5 in middle position and limp in. The guy to my immediate left raises. He has been playing tight so I put him on either a big pair or two big cards. The blind calls as does an early limper. The flop is 5 7 J rainbow. I bet and am raised. The other two players fold. The turn comes 4. I check, he bets, and I raise. He calls. The river is a 6. I bet, he calls and I win. He doesn't show his cards. Should I have tried for a check-raise on the flop to try and get some money from the early limpers and a possible 3 bet from the pre-flop raiser. 4) I'm in the small blind with K-10o. 4 players limp in, I call, BB checks. Flop comes 10 10 K. I checked the flop, it gets checked around. The turn/river comes A/6. I bet and get called twice both times. I played this hand the opposite of hand #3 as I didn't bet a monster this time.Should I have bet the flop hoping the other 10 is out there and raises me? On the other hand, since this was a passive table, I shouldn't have expected any bets unless someone had the other 10. I know i left out some details; but, I think I gave most of the general information. Thanks in advance | ||
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| Re: Comments on 5-10 hands, Kevin J, 5. Nov 2002 10:48 | ||
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| Hand #1- I wouldn't have taken his comment to mean he had a weaker hand than A5s. People often say things like that about AK, JJ, AQ, etc. Even AA. Against an unkown player raising UTG, I'd have folded A5s and done so pretty quickly. I do think you played it fine after the flop. Hand #2- With 3 players behind you, I think you should have simply folded. This flop is too likely to have hit limpers and you can't be sure what they (or you) will need. You're going to have a hard time muscling bottom pair home. Even when your hand is currently best, it's not likely to hold up. Keep in mind that hands like A8 and A9 are also likely for you opponents. Hand #3- I think you should make whatever play gets the most money in on the flop. This is a function of knowing your opponents. I'd be careful about limping first in with small pairs. They can be difficult to play in short-handed pots out of position. Hand #4- I agree with you. Unless you have reason to believe someone will bet, I think you should go ahead and bet this flop yourself. You'll certainly get action from another ten, and even a king, or QJ might get frisky with you. Underfulls are not infallible I wouldn't want to be giving out free cards on this board. IMO- | ||
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| Re: Comments on 5-10 hands, 3Kings, 6. Nov 2002 06:14 | ||
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| on 5. Nov 2002 10:48 Kevin J wrote: > Hand #1- > I wouldn't have taken his comment to mean he had a weaker hand than A5s. People > often say things like that about AK, JJ, AQ, etc. Even AA. Against an unkown > player raising UTG, I'd have folded A5s and done so pretty quickly. I do think you > played it fine after the flop. Normally, I would agree with you on a player making a statement like that. This, however, wasn't a normal player. Like I told BnB, although the table was loose, I thought I could isolate the raiser and since I have position, I could dictate the hand. Against a better player, into the muck she goes. > > Hand #2- > With 3 players behind you, I think you should have simply folded. This flop is too > likely to have hit limpers and you can't be sure what they (or you) will need. > You're going to have a hard time muscling bottom pair home. Even when your hand is > currently best, it's not likely to hold up. Keep in mind that hands like A8 and A9 > are also likely for you opponents. I wasn't at all worried that I was going to get raised from this table. My reasoning for raising the flop was that the table was passive and I was being the aggresssor(sp). If I get called from behind, I check the turn knowing that the players behind me won't bet anything but a made hand especially with a straight possible. > > Hand #3- > I think you should make whatever play gets the most money in on the flop. This is a > function of knowing your opponents. I'd be careful about limping first in with small > pairs. They can be difficult to play in short-handed pots out of position. > > Hand #4- > I agree with you. Unless you have reason to believe someone will bet, I think you > should go ahead and bet this flop yourself. You'll certainly get action from another > ten, and even a king, or QJ might get frisky with you. Underfulls are not infallible > I wouldn't want to be giving out free cards on this board. IMO- > > | ||
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| Re: Comments on 5-10 hands, BreadnButter, 8. Nov 2002 00:17 | ||
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| I gotta disagree with your suggested play on hand #4. You have flopped a MONSTER!!!! Give the free card and pray that somebody even comes close to catching up to you. If the flop is checked around then thats OK. Maybe the turn picks up a players flush draw or straight draw, or just match a hole card (for 2 pair now). Bet the turn and hope someone thinks you are stealing and has the balls to raise you. You are the boss on this hand!!! | ||
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| Re: Comments on 5-10 hands, BreadnButter, 5. Nov 2002 14:46 | ||
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| Hand #1 With an early raise from an unknown opponent you should muck the A5 suited (as fast as possible) and wait for a better opportunity to spend your checks. Many players say "this always gets me in trouble" when raising with things like AK, QQ, JJ (especially JJ!!!)... this puts you in an underdog situation right from the get go. Not to mention the other players in the hand too, they might have hands better than yours. I wouldnt have played it at all... but after calling i liked the way you handled the flop, turn and river. Hand #2 I simply wouldnt have played the A6 suited from early position. It could get raised and capped by the players after you and you either surrender your original unit or play the price and hope for the miracle flop. Flopping the bottom pair you cant bully out the passive calling stations, costing you bets. Hand #3 I would have bet the flop and gotten raised by the original raiser. Then i check raise the turn and bet out on the river. If he made a set of Jacks then you are doomed but he probably had a big pair like QQ or KK. Your sneaky set of 5's is worth a check raise on the turn. Hand #4 You played this hand the way i think you should. You flopped a MONSTER... check the flop and HOPE someone catches up and makes two pair or a straight or something. When the flop checks all around then you have to bet the turn and river. Nicely played!!! BreadnButter | ||
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| Re: Comments on 5-10 hands, 3Kings, 6. Nov 2002 06:04 | ||
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| on 5. Nov 2002 14:46 BreadnButter wrote: > > Hand #1 > > With an early raise from an unknown opponent you should muck the A5 suited (as fast > as possible) and wait for a better opportunity to spend your checks. Many players > say "this always gets me in trouble" when raising with things like AK, QQ, JJ > (especially JJ!!!)... this puts you in an underdog situation right from the get go. > Not to mention the other players in the hand too, they might have hands better than > yours. > I wouldnt have played it at all... but after calling i liked the way you handled the > flop, turn and river. When the bet got to me, the raiser was the only one in the pot. My reasoning was I could isolate the raiser and since I would have position I could dictate the flop. He was the type of player to check to the raiser so if I hit, I bet. I don't hit, I check. I didn't expect the call from the button but it did give me information on the hands she would play when it was 3-bet and I used that to my advantage later on. > > Hand #2 > > I simply wouldnt have played the A6 suited from early position. It could get raised > and capped by the players after you and you either surrender your original unit or > play the price and hope for the miracle flop. Flopping the bottom pair you cant > bully out the passive calling stations, costing you bets. I wasn't worried about getting raised on the flop from this group. In the 60 or so hands I played, there was only about 12 raises and I made 5 of them. That was the only reason I played A6s As for my raise on the flop, there was only 2 people behind me and they played very passively. They would only raise with trips or the nuts. Yes they might call with a 7 but I was willing to take that chance. > > Hand #3 > > I would have bet the flop and gotten raised by the original raiser. Then i check > raise the turn and bet out on the river. If he made a set of Jacks then you are > doomed but he probably had a big pair like QQ or KK. Your sneaky set of 5's is worth > a check raise on the turn. > > Hand #4 > > You played this hand the way i think you should. You flopped a MONSTER... check the > flop and HOPE someone catches up and makes two pair or a straight or something. When > the flop checks all around then you have to bet the turn and river. Nicely > played!!! > > BreadnButter | ||
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| Re: Comments on 5-10 hands, Mark, 5. Nov 2002 19:02 | ||
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| I would have folded hands 1,2 & 3. Your flop plays seem fine. Mark | ||
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| Re: Comments on 5-10 hands, Andrew Wells, 6. Nov 2002 03:32 | ||
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| I would probably handle these situations differently than you did. My preference follows each hand. on 5. Nov 2002 08:12 3Kings wrote: > I played these hands yesterday at the local casino. The table was loose passive > (5 callers almost no raises). > > 1) I have Ad5d one from cutoff. Early position player raises while saying > "this usually gets me in trouble". It was directed at the guy next to him but I > overheard it. Being a raise or fold situation, I decided to give him some > trouble and 3-bet. The button calls as does the raiser. Flop comes 4 7 8 > rainbow. I bet and everyone calls. Turn comes 10. Everyone checks and river > comes 6. I bet and only the button calls. Button has Ah5h and we split the > pot. The raiser played about 5 out of 6 hands but I hadn't seen him raise up to > that point. Would anyone else have done the same thing? > That's a useful tell you heard. It generally means a big hand which the player tends to remember getting snapped off with. Therefore AXs goes in the muck without hesitation. The only times I would consider three betting such a hand is when I have late position, the raise comes from the player on my right, I think there is a good chance of isolation, I can outplay the raiser, and there are no strong players on my left or in the blinds. > 2) Early limper, I call with Ac6c, 3 callers behind me as well as the small > blind. 7 peoplein the pot total. Flop comes 6d 8h 9d. SB and BB check, limper > bets, I raise and everyone folds to the limper who calls. The turn is Jh. > Limper checks and I bet. He hesitates and decides to call. I'm pretty sure he > has a 9 as if he was on a flush draw (or straight) he wouldn't have hesitated to > call River is 3h. Because I put him on a 9, I know I can't win unless he folds > so I bet. He calls and wins with Q9o. > The hand goes in the muck to the bet on the flop. The board is coordinated with flush and straight draws possible. This is just the type of flop that is likely to have helped someone else at a loose passive table. No point in raising to try to get everyone behind you to fold here, it just won't work this time. Top pair is hard enough to win with this board, you are simply drawing to five outs (four if someone has diamonds). You also must survive any redraws if you happen to hit the turn. > 3) I have 5-5 in middle position and limp in. The guy to my immediate left > raises. He has been playing tight so I put him on either a big pair or two big > cards. The blind calls as does an early limper. The flop is 5 7 J rainbow. I > bet and am raised. The other two players fold. The turn comes 4. I check, he > bets, and I raise. He calls. The river is a 6. I bet, he calls and I win. He > doesn't show his cards. Should I have tried for a check-raise on the flop to > try and get some money from the early limpers and a possible 3 bet from the > pre-flop raiser. > Middle position is not good for limping with small pocket pairs without several callers in front of you. You already know you're not going to get good implied odds to hit the flop. You show weakness to anyone who wants to isolate you. In a tight game I might consider raising preflop with 55, but here it should be an easy fold. Okay, you flopped your set. The deep checkraise is possible, but I would prefer to have two big cards on the flop. I would just bet, and not risk giving someone a free card to pick up a draw to a hand that could beat you. I don't play sets deceptively or slowly. Reraise on the flop because your opponent may be looking for a free card and not bet the turn for you. Then just keep betting, even three bet the turn if played back at. > 4) I'm in the small blind with K-10o. 4 players limp in, I call, BB checks. > Flop comes 10 10 K. I checked the flop, it gets checked around. The turn/river > comes A/6. I bet and get called twice both times. I played this hand the > opposite of hand #3 as I didn't bet a monster this time.Should I have bet the > flop hoping the other 10 is out there and raises me? On the other hand, since > this was a passive table, I shouldn't have expected any bets unless someone had > the other 10. > Bet the flop. Players will be slow to put you on even a ten let alone a full house. Someone with a king and a backdoor flush draw, QJ, KQ, and KJ will see the turn. The problem with slow playing is that it will be too obvious whenever you do show strength. If the case ten is out there you cost yourself extra bets as well. The only hands which will play with you are those that can catch something on the turn that may happen to give them a few outs to beat you. Make them pay the whole way to catch runner runner queens or jacks. Letting someone fill up with a lower pocket pair than tens will happen less than 5% of the time. Playing this hand fast IS playing it deceptively. > I know i left out some details; but, I think I gave most of the general > information. Thanks in advance | ||
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| Re: Comments on 5-10 hands, Roy Cooke, 6. Nov 2002 20:24 | ||
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| Hello 3Kings My comments will be underneath the questions! Roy Cooke on 5. Nov 2002 08:12 3Kings wrote: > I played these hands yesterday at the local casino. The table was loose passive > (5 callers almost no raises). > > 1) I have Ad5d one from cutoff. Early position player raises while saying > "this usually gets me in trouble". It was directed at the guy next to him but I > overheard it. Being a raise or fold situation, I decided to give him some > trouble and 3-bet. The button calls as does the raiser. Flop comes 4 7 8 > rainbow. I bet and everyone calls. Turn comes 10. Everyone checks and river > comes 6. I bet and only the button calls. Button has Ah5h and we split the > pot. The raiser played about 5 out of 6 hands but I hadn't seen him raise up to > that point. Would anyone else have done the same thing? Roy Cooke: No...since he seldom raised I would have given him credit for a real hand and mucked your holding. > > 2) Early limper, I call with Ac6c, 3 callers behind me as well as the small > blind. 7 peoplein the pot total. Flop comes 6d 8h 9d. SB and BB check, limper > bets, I raise and everyone folds to the limper who calls. The turn is Jh. > Limper checks and I bet. He hesitates and decides to call. I'm pretty sure he > has a 9 as if he was on a flush draw (or straight) he wouldn't have hesitated to > call River is 3h. Because I put him on a 9, I know I can't win unless he folds > so I bet. He calls and wins with Q9o. Roy Cooke : It is rare to find a player that would fold top pair (which you correctly assessed his hand to be) in that situation. I think you had very poor expectaion on the bet on the turn and river. > > 3) I have 5-5 in middle position and limp in. The guy to my immediate left > raises. He has been playing tight so I put him on either a big pair or two big > cards. The blind calls as does an early limper. The flop is 5 7 J rainbow. I > bet and am raised. The other two players fold. The turn comes 4. I check, he > bets, and I raise. He calls. The river is a 6. I bet, he calls and I win. He > doesn't show his cards. Should I have tried for a check-raise on the flop to > try and get some money from the early limpers and a possible 3 bet from the > pre-flop raiser. Roy Cooke: Yes! > > 4) I'm in the small blind with K-10o. 4 players limp in, I call, BB checks. > Flop comes 10 10 K. I checked the flop, it gets checked around. The turn/river > comes A/6. I bet and get called twice both times. I played this hand the > opposite of hand #3 as I didn't bet a monster this time.Should I have bet the > flop hoping the other 10 is out there and raises me? On the other hand, since > this was a passive table, I shouldn't have expected any bets unless someone had > the other 10. Roy Cooke: I think the check on the flop was correct. If you opponets would bet an Ace on the turn I would have checked again with the intention of check-raising! > > I know i left out some details; but, I think I gave most of the general > information. Thanks in advance | ||
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