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Server Time: 9/7/2008 8:18:53 PM PACIFIC |
 A-6 offsuit, Mark, 3. Nov 2002 09:21 | ||
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| I was sitting a $5-10 table for only a few minutes and only knew one opponent. The table seems tight, maybe a few calling stations. I had come from another table where I played 2 hands in two hours. I'm in the BB with A-6 offsuit. UTG raises, I don't get a good specific tell on him but, i think he came from a $10-20 and is trying to push the table around. His bet seemed weak (?). the button (loose player, I HEARD him betting from my previous table and liked to mix it up ) is the first caller. SB folds. I call. Looking back this seems like a bad call but i really felt the UTG raiser was weak and I didn't think the button would fold much in his position. (these were both first impressions) The flop comes A-7-3 offsuit. UTG stares at the flop and the button makes a move to his chips ( I can only see the button's hands b/c there is a really big guy between us). I come out betting, UTG folds (like i expected), the button raises ! I had seen the button make a move to his chips earlier(and later) when trying to discourage a bet, so his raise really confused me. What should I do? My general rule is (unless i know better) that low limit players don't raise without being able to beat top pair. I didn't follow my rule and paid of his A-3 offsuit. Also, knowing my pre-flop reads were correct, was playing a A-6o vs. a A-3o correct when i'm out of position? Last question. My girlfriend was at this table and said the button's head was pointed towards the flop but his eyes were focused to the other side of the table, an obvious tell thanks to Mike C. When he raised my bet, all i could see was him making another move to his chips. I did everything but stand up and walk around the table to get a look at this guys face but couldn't see him ( i guess he was crouching down). What else could I have done to get a read on him? | ||
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| Re: A-6 offsuit, Dave Scharf, 3. Nov 2002 14:50 | ||
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| With respect to Mr Caro... tells are, I think, over-rated. Make no mistake, that are very important. At times, critical. But for the most part "what kind of player is my opponent" when added to "what has the betting history of the hand shown" are far more important. > The flop comes A-7-3 offsuit. I think your call pre-flop is probably OK... but it is definately close. The chance that UTG has a big ace is reasonably high, and there has been a called. What does the caller have? There are LOTS of possibilities given that you have him as a loose, low-limi player. Pocket pair? He probably calls with any pocket pair. Two cards 10+ Suited aces, suited connectors. In low-limit games, those are all routine calls for many many players... You are getting 5-1 on your call, but it is close. So you bet out, UTG folds and... >the button raises ! > What should I do? I would tend to three bet him. I am not too fond of your rule... > My general rule is (unless i know better) that low limit players don't > raise without being able to beat top pair. Your description of the player should at least have expected that his raise might not beat top pair. Maybe he floped second pair and is shooting for a free card? If he four bets you you can probably fold right then and there, or take off the turn and fold the turn. A common low limit error is to go into a shell when facing some aggression and call down to the river. Consider this. You get raised and then call the turn and river... you lose two big bets beyond the flop. You three bet, get raised call and then fold the turn you lose one big best (ie. two small on the flop). You lose less when you have a loser and punish him when he is on a free card play. Regards, Dave Scharf www.canadianpoker.com | ||
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| Re: A-6 offsuit, Roy Cooke, 4. Nov 2002 21:41 | ||
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| My answers are under the individual questions Roy Cooke on 3. Nov 2002 09:21 Mark wrote: > I was sitting a $5-10 table for only a few minutes and only knew one opponent. > The table seems tight, maybe a few calling stations. I had come from another > table where I played 2 hands in two hours. > > I'm in the BB with A-6 offsuit. UTG raises, I don't get a good specific tell > on him but, i think he came from a $10-20 and is trying to push the table > around. His bet seemed weak (?). the button (loose player, I HEARD him betting > from my previous table and liked to mix it up ) is the first caller. SB folds. > I call. > > Looking back this seems like a bad call but i really felt the UTG raiser was > weak and I didn't think the button would fold much in his position. (these were > both first impressions) This should be an automatic laydown. You did NOT have much information on your opponents (If I play a weak situation it is because I am prepared to make good decisions in the hand) and your hand could easily be in kicker trouble to the upfront raiser. > > The flop comes A-7-3 offsuit. UTG stares at the flop and the button makes a > move to his chips ( I can only see the button's hands b/c there is a really big > guy between us). I come out betting, UTG folds (like i expected), the button > raises ! > > I had seen the button make a move to his chips earlier(and later) when trying > to discourage a bet, so his raise really confused me. > > What should I do? > > My general rule is (unless i know better) that low limit players don't raise > without being able to beat top pair. I didn't follow my rule and paid of his > A-3 offsuit. All you can beat is a bluff! Is your opponent bluffing? He called a raise and raised when you represented an Ace! He would have to be a player that has a high propensity to raisebluff for me to pay this guy off in a pot this small. > > Also, knowing my pre-flop reads were correct, was playing a A-6o vs. a A-3o > correct when i'm out of position? i already answered this one! > > Last question. My girlfriend was at this table and said the button's head was > pointed towards the flop but his eyes were focused to the other side of the > table, an obvious tell thanks to Mike C. When he raised my bet, all i could see > was him making another move to his chips. I did everything but stand up and > walk around the table to get a look at this guys face but couldn't see him ( i > guess he was crouching down). > What else could I have done to get a read on him? I think you had a read on him....when players look away they are generally strong! Roy Cooke | ||
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| Re: A-6 offsuit, Charles Kincy, 4. Nov 2002 22:59 | ||
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| Some authors call A6 a "dominated" hand, because if you are up against another A, you are in a lot of trouble (you have only 3 outs). In general, dominated high cards are a lot worse if someone raises up front than they are if that person raises near the button. They are much more likely to have a high wired pair or a big ace (or AA worst of all!) The big ace is bad if you hit your ace, and the pair is bad if you hit your six. You have no information and a lack of position, and this overwhelms the "half price" discount you get. On the other hand, if the raise is near the button, you could be in good shape whether you hit your ace or your six, and you can also check-raise to isolate (though this play is overrated in LL games). | ||
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