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Server Time: 9/6/2008 4:24:01 PM PACIFIC |
 A Frustrating Hand, Kevin J, 3. Nov 2002 06:58 | ||
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| This was a very frustrating hand for me. Mainly because even with the benefit of hindsight, I'm still no closer to knowing how I should have played it. I raised with JJ UTG. A late/middle position player and the bb called. 3-way. The flop came A83r. bb checked, I bet, late player raised, bb folded. Even with the ace on board I thought I might have the best hand. I re-raised, he capped. I still wasn't sure he had me beat. I called. The turn was a 6. I checked, he checked. The river was a 7. I checked, he bet. With this bet the likelihood I was beat grew. Probably by a weak ace. But I thought there was still a good enough chance he might be betting TT or a smaller pair. Besides, it might be worth $40 to see what the hell he'd play this way and getting a better line on his play in the future. Of course it's obvious I already thought I had some idea of how he played (anyone else use this excuse for turning into a slot machine?). I called and lost to 87s. So I had him read right, but there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it. He's probably right to take one off on the flop so he puts in an extra bet and tries to get a free card. This extra bet might also win him the pot if I'm dumb/smart enough to fold a hand like JJ. So his raise on the flop can't be that bad, can it? But I foil his play. If he KNEW it would cost him 3 bets, his raise on the flop becomes poor. I have the best hand and punish him for trying to outplay me, right? But now he's certainly correct to call one more with 5 outs, so he puts in another extra bet to ensure I check the turn. It worked. I mean how can I bet the turn after he 4 bets an UTG pre-flop raiser with an ace on the board? But now my question is, who made the worse check on the turn? Of course, if we turned our cards face up, I should bet the turn. Theory of poker and all that. I make a bad check to be sure. Then again, if HE bets the turn, he wins right there 100% of the time. So by failing to bet he changes the results from him winning EVERY time, to winning only 1 time in 9. That's gotta be good for me. I was flat-out outplayed. I'm not sure what lesson I should walk away from this hand with. The power of his postion and aggressive semi-bluff might mean I should have simply folded on the flop even though I suspected my hand was best. If I had it to do over again, maybe I'd just call his raise and bet the turn. I hate it when hindsight still doesn't bring me any closer to knowing what I should have done! | ||
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| Re: A Frustrating Hand, Andrew Wells, 3. Nov 2002 07:45 | ||
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| I suppose you should have taken the $100 loss and let it go when he four bet the flop, but I have trouble making that lay down after three betting too. If I thought he was playing an ace with a weak kicker when he raised the flop, then I don't expect him to fold on the turn if I just called the raise and led out. But then maybe you can lay down jacks on the river when you check and he bets. Since you still thought you had the best hand (I would have believed he had the aces or better he was representing) after he four bet you, then you took the worst of it with the turn checking. I don't see how you could bet the turn either, but since you can't bet if a blank comes and you're holding a hand with very little chance of improving, his check was better even though a bet would take you off the best hand. Still it's nice to know that he'll call an UTG raise cold with medium suited connectors in an obvious small pot situation. They can do that all night leaking money. Did he have one card of his suit on the flop with second pair when he four bet? Makes it easier to get creative for the free card when there's also runner runner chances. | ||
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| Re: A Frustrating Hand, Kevin J, 3. Nov 2002 23:27 | ||
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| Wow, you really kow how to clarify a hand. I think you're right. I normally would fold for the first raise on the flop even though I suspect a semi-bluff. But this player was very loose/aggressive and I REALLY thought I had the best hand. I think a better play against this player would've been to call his raise, lead the turn, and then just make a decision on the river if I check and he bets. I really don't like laying down immediately after I 3-bet and he caps it even when it's mathematically the correct thing to do. I may as well muck my hand face up. It also might encourage others to take shots at me. Thanks for your response. | ||
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| Re: A Frustrating Hand, Andrew Wells, 4. Nov 2002 00:30 | ||
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| Then the lesson from the hand you were looking for is not to try and play back at a loose aggressive player who you suspect is semibluffing on the flop with a hand that is hard to improve and thus needs to be bet on the turn. | ||
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| Exactly! Thanks (n/m), Kevin J, 4. Nov 2002 05:55 | ||
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| N/M | ||
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