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Server Time: 2/10/2012 10:13:27 PM PACIFIC |
 Fox in the big blind, Dave Scharf, 31. Oct 2002 18:02 | ||
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| It is a no-limit tournament. You have an average stack of chips and are under no pressure from the size of the blinds. It is folded to you on the button. Phil Helmuth, with the same number of chips as you, is the big blind. With what hands will you raise? Do you EVER limp in? After your raise, Phil comes over the top for ALL of his chips. With what hands will you call? I will post my own thoughts in a couple of days... I am curious how others feel first. Regards, Dave Scharf www.canadianpoker.com | ||
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| Re: Fox in the big blind, Daniel Negreanu, 2. Nov 2002 05:56 | ||
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| on 31. Oct 2002 18:02 Dave Scharf wrote: > It is a no-limit tournament. You have an average stack of chips and are under no > pressure from the size of the blinds. > > It is folded to you on the button. Phil Helmuth, with the same number of chips > as you, is the big blind. With what hands will you raise? I won't raise less hands than I normally would against the opponent you mentioned. He is just as averse to risk as the next guy, if not more. The type of hands I would raise with, would depend on what's happened in this situation earlier in the tournament. For this example, I'll assume it's early in the tournament, and it's the first hand we've played against each other- on the day. I would raise with any suited connecter, any A, any pair, any two pictures. Any K-suited, Q-suited, and connected cards 7-8 and higher. Of course if Phil did re-raise, I would only call with (depending on the size of the re-raise) quaiity hands (9-9, A-K, A-Qs suited etc). If Phil made a small re-raise, I would also feel good about calling with ANY pocket pair, and any suited connecter. Do you EVER limp in? Sometimes, but very rarely. I would onyl do it if I was setting something up, or I wanted to see a flop, but couldn't call a re-raise. I Might limp with hands like J-9, if I thought Phil was likely to call or re-raise anyway. > > After your raise, Phil comes over the top for ALL of his chips. With what hands > will you call? > Depends on the history. If I felt he thought I was playing too aggressively on the button, and that he may be re-raising me with a hand like A-6, I might call him with as little as A-J. Daniel Negreanu kidpoker@hotmail.com > I will post my own thoughts in a couple of days... I am curious how others feel > first. > > Regards, > Dave Scharf > www.canadianpoker.com | ||
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| Re: Fox in the big blind, Mike Caro, 2. Nov 2002 06:38 | ||
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| on 31. Oct 2002 18:02 Dave Scharf wrote: > It is a no-limit tournament. You have an average stack of chips and are under no > pressure from the size of the blinds. > > It is folded to you on the button. Phil Helmuth, with the same number of chips > as you, is the big blind. With what hands will you raise? Do you EVER limp in? > > After your raise, Phil comes over the top for ALL of his chips. With what hands > will you call? > > I will post my own thoughts in a couple of days... I am curious how others feel > first. > > Regards, > Dave Scharf > www.canadianpoker.com Hi, Dave -- First, I'd like to welcome you to UPF. It's great to have you posting here. For those who don't know, Dave Scharf too-briefly published his own poker magazine -- and it was excellent. In his non-poker life, he is a top-rated radio personality in Canada. His presence here will be highly prized. Now about the poker question. Dave, I personally would give Phil Helmuth more slack than I would many other players, by not raising or entering pots as aggressively with borderline hands from the button when he's the big blind -- hands such as J-9 and 10-9 unsuited (among many differerent examples) that I MIGHT raise with against more timid opponents that I can manipulate. Those hands tend to make small profit when you can steer the action, but lose money against expert and deceptive opponents. In short, I want to try small-to-normal raises with "iffy" hand in situtations where I'm less likely to be reraised. In making this decision, I would also strongly consider who the small blind is. Would I ever just call? Against some players, just-calling in no-limit seems mroe threatening than a small raise. These players (though not many in number, especially among the more aggressive group) will often let you see the flop without raising. In those cases, it's correct to just call frequently -- but not always. You should also remember that when you have a big hand, in many situations you'll have a better chance of getting an aggressive opponent all-in by beginning with a small-to-medium raise than by just-calling. Often players see a routine raise from late position as more attackable than a call. This didn't specifically address all of your question, but your question prompted me to make these related points. I'll be interested to hear what others have to say about your post. Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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| Re: Fox in the big blind, Dave Scharf, 3. Nov 2002 08:02 | ||
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| My thoughts are very much in line with Mike's. If the big blind is a dangerous and deceptive player (Helmuth, Negreanu, Caro, etc) I don't want the gap between raising range and calling range to be too big. If it is, then you give these foxes and obvious re-steal opportunity. In fact, I am surprised by Daniel's answer because I would think that Phil would pick up on how big that gap is there and re-raise with a LARGE number of hands. Daniel, can you get away with that range of hands because Phil knows that you, like him, are decpetive and therefore he would rather not tangle with you? It seems to me that If I was raising as often as you, Phil would very quickly fiigure out that I was frequently out of line and play back at me. As a second question... suppose Daniel that you are in the big blind and a player who is unknown to you (like me... sort of) is limping in 10% of the time on the button, raiseing 10% of the time of the button and folding the remainding 80% how do you play him if you are the big blind? Regards, Dave | ||
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| Re: Fox in the big blind, Daniel Negreanu, 3. Nov 2002 11:51 | ||
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| on 3. Nov 2002 08:02 Dave Scharf wrote: > My thoughts are very much in line with Mike's. > > If the big blind is a dangerous and deceptive player (Helmuth, Negreanu, Caro, etc) I > don't want the gap between raising range and calling range to be too big. If it is, then > you give these foxes and obvious re-steal opportunity. > > In fact, I am surprised by Daniel's answer because I would think that Phil would pick up > on how big that gap is there and re-raise with a LARGE number of hands. Daniel, can you > get away with that range of hands because Phil knows that you, like him, are decpetive and > therefore he would rather not tangle with you? It seems to me that If I was raising as > often as you, Phil would very quickly fiigure out that I was frequently out of line and > play back at me. > Ahh, but's that's a misconception of Phil's style. I have a good read on Phil's tendencies, and he isn't the 're-raising' type. Now, if you were talking about someone like John Juanda, that's a different story entirely. He IS the re-raising type. Phil likes to see flops, and will do a lot of 'calling' yes, but re-raising no. So, I don't mind playing a wide range of hands against him after the flop, seeing as I'll have position throughout the hand. > As a second question... suppose Daniel that you are in the big blind and a player who is > unknown to you (like me... sort of) is limping in 10% of the time on the button, raiseing > 10% of the time of the button and folding the remainding 80% how do you play him if you > are the big blind? Hmmm....interesting question, but I don't think my reply will be quite as interesting. I too, like to see flops, so I wouldn't go out of my way to re-raise this player's raises, or punish his limps. The only exception being when there are antes involved, than I might raise out of the bb to pick up the dead money. The key for me, would be to find out WHAT this player limps with, and what he raises with. If I peg him to be a player that won't limp with A-A or any other big hands, I'll raise quite often. If he is tricky, and might limp with AK setting up a trap, then i'll obviously lay off him a little bit. Either way, 10% and 10% is a description of rather weak player. I would reccomend playing more than 20% of the hands dealt to you in this situation. Daniel Negreanu kidpoker@hotmail.com > > Regards, > Dave | ||
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| Re: Fox in the big blind, Dave Scharf, 3. Nov 2002 14:38 | ||
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| Oops... I have asked the wrong question. I picked Phil out of the hat as representing the group of players who are apt to re-steal... Let me ask then, Daniel, what hands will you raise Lane Flack with? What will you call a re-raise with (assuming it is a SUBSTANTIAL re-raise). IF 10% raising and 10% calling is too little... what would you consider to be the most threatening break down of raising/calling/folding the button when you are the big blind? The point of this is, in my mind, to sort out the way to attack a big blind who is known as a SKILLED and AGGRESSIVE player. I do not want the gap between what I will raise with and call a re-raise with to be so big that the foxey big blind will routinely re-raise me. I want to sort out a way to play in that spot that takes advantage of my position yet doesn't routinely open me up to a re-steal from the Flack's and Juanda's of the world. I figure, if Daniel is the Big blind I will raise with about 10% of hands and call with about 10% of hands. I will also ensure that I am mixing it up... so I will raise with AA about 75% of the time and call with AA about 25% of the time. I am playing in a way that, I hope,. will not telegraph that all my limps are weak and my raises are strong... rather, either could be either if that makes sense. Regards, Dave Scharf www.canadianpoker.com | ||
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| Re: Fox in the big blind, DaVoice, 15. Nov 2002 21:32 | ||
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| Daniel, I agree. I think Phil may "auto-raise" if he smells weakness or fear when you limp from the button and the sb folds, but wouldn't be as likely to re-raise because, as you said, he likes to see some flops (not unlike you, I may add). Wouldn't limping in this position ONLY be used to set up a play on later streets? Let's say you raise the standard 3x his big blind and he comes over the top for the amount of the pot... What hands do you need to call or re-raise in that situation? Rick | ||
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