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Server Time: 3/20/2010 5:21:56 PM PACIFIC |
 Roy's Card Player article, Dynasty, 31. Oct 2002 01:11 | ||
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| I just read Roy Cooke's Card Player article (11/8/02). In this hand, he limped UTG with A8s. After a few other limpers, the player to the right of the cutoff raised and the cutoff 3-bet. After the Button and Big Blind called, the action came back to Roy. It appeared the flop would be taken 8 handed. Roy called the additional two bets. I have no problem with the initial UTG limp. I'll limp in EP with many hands including suited Aces, small/medium pairs, and a few other hands. However, if the flop action comes back to me for 3+ bets, I'll fold all the hands other than the pairs. Despite the 8 way action Roy could expect to get, I think I would still fold A8s or any suited Ace that I limped with. The 8-way action does seem to make it a much closer decision than it usually would be. | ||
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| Re: Roy's Card Player article, Kevin J, 31. Oct 2002 06:09 | ||
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| This pot looks like it's going to be worth trying to win. I might not like it, but I'd put the additional 2 bets in every time. In addition to nut flush possibilities, other miracle flops (such as 883, etc.) DO occur. There are also non-miracle flops like 7s,5d,4c which might not be bad assuming he plays the hand well. Just curious... Would you throw A8s away if you were on the button, UTG raised, and 5 players called, and both blinds were loose? | ||
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| Re: Roy's Card Player article, Jim Brier, 31. Oct 2002 11:45 | ||
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| I would not have limped in under-the-gun with ace-nothing suited in an aggressive game. But having decided to do so, I think Roy got caught up in the installment plan. Despite it being two more bets back to him, with all those players involved I think he has to take a flop. Keep in mind that his draw is to the nut-flush which is important in jammed pots with lots of players. I think his post-flop play was outstanding, especially 3-betting. Roy buys himself some additional outs by driving out players with bigger aces. This is important when there are large pots at stake. Sometimes a top player like Cooke can take some small liberties, even under-the-gun, because his post-flop play is so strong. | ||
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| Re: Roy's Card Player article, drewjustdrew, 31. Oct 2002 14:38 | ||
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| on 31. Oct 2002 11:45 Jim Brier wrote: > I would not have limped in under-the-gun with ace-nothing suited in an aggressive > game. Absolutely amen!. Even if he is strong post flop, I can't see the edge being significant enough to account for the extra variance. I guess some schools of thought are that positive EV is positive EV, but you can have room for mistakes when playing this close to the edge. | ||
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| Re: Roy's Card Player article, Roy Cooke, 1. Nov 2002 14:35 | ||
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| If I fold when it comes back to me three bets then my expectaion loss on the bet would be a small bet. With that many players in even if it was capped my expectation loss on the bet would not be that much. Calling the two bets was definately correct once I had made the initial call. I would have rather the pot not been double raised. But that is not something I have much control over. I do think the initial call before the flop was a marginal call that I would not have lost much in the way of expectation had I folded. Roy Cooke n 31. Oct 2002 01:11 Dynasty wrote: > I just read Roy Cooke's Card Player article (11/8/02). In this hand, he limped > UTG with A8s. After a few other limpers, the player to the right of the cutoff > raised and the cutoff 3-bet. After the Button and Big Blind called, the action > came back to Roy. It appeared the flop would be taken 8 handed. Roy called the > additional two bets. > > I have no problem with the initial UTG limp. I'll limp in EP with many hands > including suited Aces, small/medium pairs, and a few other hands. However, if > the flop action comes back to me for 3+ bets, I'll fold all the hands other than > the pairs. > > Despite the 8 way action Roy could expect to get, I think I would still fold > A8s or any suited Ace that I limped with. The 8-way action does seem to make it > a much closer decision than it usually would be. > > > > | ||
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| Re: Roy's Card Player article, Charles Kincy, 2. Nov 2002 04:04 | ||
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| Playing Axs in loose-aggressive games is controversial, but the pure mathematics of the game show Axs to be profitable in ANY position as long as the game is extremely loose...say 6+ players per flop on average. Adding an aggressive aspect increases the number of decisions you make, which hurts a weak player. But I still think the hand is a winner even if you're weak post-flop...you just won't win as much. You have to be careful when you flop an ace with a junk kicker. You also have to know how to bet your draws for value. Finally, you have to accept the consequences of this style of play...you will win more in the long run but you will suffer high variance. So it's not a good idea with a limited bankroll. Roy just got butt-ass unlucky. I think the way he played this hand is awesome...the river check-raise may have been slightly out of line, it's better if the board isn't paired (but rather obvious in that case). | ||
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