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Server Time: 10/15/2008 3:28:47 PM PACIFIC |
 A7C against maniac, TOM WAGGONER, 29. Oct 2002 22:42 | ||
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| In a recent hand of 15-30 HE, I pick up the A7 of clubs in middle position, there is one early limper, and a maniac raises, he has raised several times out of all different positions with garbage, I decided to 3 bet him in an attempt to isolate him. Everyone folded to the limper who called and the maniac capped it. I new the limper to be a solid player. The flop was 9s 7h 4c, the limper checks, the maniac fires away, I decided to raise again, the limper folded and the maniac just called. The turn was the 3h, the maniac checked, I checked, and the river paired the 4s, the maniac bet and i called him only to be shown Q9 offsuit. My question: should I have mucked this hand before the flop and waited for a better spot for my money? I would also welcome comments on my play of the hand. Thank you, TOM | ||
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| Re: A7C against maniac, Jim Brier, 30. Oct 2002 09:40 | ||
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| I can understand your desire to isolate the maniac but the problem is that ace-shit suited is not the right tool for the job. I really think you need a better hand like A-J unsuited or A-T suited or a decent sized pair. What really makes it bad is the presence of a third player who is a good player that knows what is going on. I would have folded preflop. If more players had been involved, I would have just called. I like the rest of your plays although consideration should have been given to following through with a bet on the turn since you are very vulnerable to overcards when your hand is best, which in this case it wasn't. | ||
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| Re: A7C against maniac, HOSH, 30. Oct 2002 10:51 | ||
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| You broke all the rules here my friend. The cost was high for you to reraise with A7s the chance was small against the maniac and the payback was just not high enough. Chip Reese once went broke on a small edge against a maniac in Super System. He wondered why he gambled with such a small edge against this type of edge when he could wait for a 4 or 5 to one edge. | ||
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| Re: A7C against maniac, Dave Scharf, 30. Oct 2002 14:13 | ||
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| Like other replies, I am not fond of your play pre-flop. There was a limper. A limper that, in your words, was a solid player. Under the circumstances, I think that isolating is unlikely and you are goping to have to beat (1) The solid player with legitimate starters; and (2) A maniac who could have anything. A7 has an edge over two random cards... (specifcically you are 3-2 against tow random cards in a monte carlo sim), but the maniacs cards aren't random (presumably he folds the worst crap and there is a limper. Wait for a better spot. Having said that I like the raise on the flop. I would bet the turn and check the river. Lose the same amount, win more if you hand improves on the river and you can bet again. Regards, Dave Scharf www.canadianpoker.com | ||
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| Re: A7C against maniac, Dan Chio, 30. Oct 2002 17:03 | ||
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| I don't think 3 betting with A7s is that poor of a play, BUT in this instance, I must say it was. The presence of an early position limper is the first thing. Second, you do not have good position...There are many players behind you who could wake up with a solid hand and if they are good players, they will be making calls with hands that normally would be in the muck for three bets (i.e. AK, TT, etc.), because they also realize that you are trying to isolate the maniac. Post flop -- everything looked good, though I might have fired a bet out on the turn instead of checking. Later... | ||
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| Re: A7C against maniac, JJKerr, 30. Oct 2002 19:22 | ||
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| on 29. Oct 2002 22:42 TOM WAGGONER wrote: > In a recent hand of 15-30 HE, I pick up the A7 of clubs in middle position, > there is one early limper, and a maniac raises, he has raised several times out > of all different positions with garbage, I decided to 3 bet him in an attempt to > isolate him. Everyone folded to the limper who called and the maniac capped it. > I new the limper to be a solid player. The flop was 9s 7h 4c, the limper checks, > the maniac fires away, I decided to raise again, the limper folded and the > maniac just called. The turn was the 3h, the maniac checked, I checked, and the > river paired the 4s, the maniac bet and i called him only to be shown Q9 > offsuit. My question: should I have mucked this hand before the flop and waited > for a better spot for my money? I would also welcome comments on my play of the > hand. Thank you, TOM I like the way you played this hand. But my question is; Why stick things up your butt if you don't have to? Or don't want to? I think that is a better question. Best Regards, JJ Kerr | ||
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| Re: A7C against maniac, Michael S Mantel, 31. Oct 2002 13:47 | ||
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| Aside from the cards why not wait til you are in late position. also any aware person at the table behind you will see your move for what it is.. And if you are going to do this you need to follow through til the end. (IMHO). or else don't bother | ||
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| Re: A7C against maniac, Roy Cooke, 1. Nov 2002 14:49 | ||
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| I think your concepts are correct, but the situation you picked to apply them is incorrect. You isolate with a hand in which plays well with volume and had an additional limper that made the isolation play much weaker! Once you had made the play pre-flop I think the play on the flop was correct. I would p[robably bet the turn if he was super lively and had a propensity to lead with nothing! Roy Cooke on 29. Oct 2002 22:42 TOM WAGGONER wrote: > In a recent hand of 15-30 HE, I pick up the A7 of clubs in middle position, > there is one early limper, and a maniac raises, he has raised several times out > of all different positions with garbage, I decided to 3 bet him in an attempt to > isolate him. Everyone folded to the limper who called and the maniac capped it. > I new the limper to be a solid player. The flop was 9s 7h 4c, the limper checks, > the maniac fires away, I decided to raise again, the limper folded and the > maniac just called. The turn was the 3h, the maniac checked, I checked, and the > river paired the 4s, the maniac bet and i called him only to be shown Q9 > offsuit. My question: should I have mucked this hand before the flop and waited > for a better spot for my money? I would also welcome comments on my play of the > hand. Thank you, TOM | ||
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