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When do you fold???, Dice, 29. Oct 2002 21:44
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A few problems from some real hands in low-limit online games. I'm doing this exercise because some of these hands gave me problems. I'll give everyone a chance to answer these and give you the hands, who won, and how I handled the situation. I got to see each of these hands at showdown whether it was because I called the final bet or an opponent did so.


1) Your in the cutoff when you're dealt KK. A poor player UTG limps, a middle position player limps, you raise, the button and the blinds fold.

The flop comes Q 7 3 rainbow (suits will not be important for this hand.

The UTG player checks, middle position bets, you raise, the UTG player calls two bets cold and the middle position player 3 bets. What do you do? If you take another card, by just calling, what do you do if you don't catch a king?


2) Your in late position and limp into a family pot with 22. We're going to see the flop 7 handed.

Flop comes JT2 (2 hearts)

There is a bet a raise and a reraise and a 3 bet before it gets to you. What is your strategy here on the flop? The turn brings a Kh. You know you're in trouble and there are two bets awaiting your call.


3) You were dealt AQ from late position in a relatively tight game and you bring it in for a raise. The BB calls and you see the flop heads up.

Flop brings Q 7 4 (suits are unimportant)

BB checks, you bet, BB calls

Turn brings a 7

BB checks, you bet, BB raises

What do you do? You have only been at the table with this player for about 10 hands and have no feel for him or her.


4) You're on the button and dealt KJ. Its folded to you and you decide to go for the steal. BB calls. Head's up on the way to the flop.

The flop brings a nice looking J 9 2 rainbow

You bet, the BB calls

Turn brings an innocuous-looking 5 when, all of the sudden, the BB comes out betting!! Uh-oh...what to do?

5) You see the flop 4 handed with AhAs. You have raised it to 3 bets before the flop and watch as 2 players call 2 bets cold.

Flop comes Jd 7s 4d

Everyone checks to you, you bet, 3 players call.

Turn brings a Ks.

Once again, it is checked to you when you bet and everyone else calls.

The River brings a dreaded 6d.

The first player bets and the second one folds. What do you do?


6) You are in the big blind and dealt J7. 4 players see the flop.

The flop comes 77A.

A raise and a reraise on the flop. How do you play it here????

Turn brings a J giving you 7s full. More action and you decide to bet out here. Would you do this? You get raised and a player trapped in the middle calls the bets cold and you decide to reraise and the original raiser caps it? What's going on and what should you do?


In some of these hands I had the best hand and in some I had a second best hand. I'll give you the answers later. I do realize that the correct answer in the given situation is not necessarily THE correct answer, but these are typical hands that are interesting nonetheless. Correct play in these situations can make a huge difference in profitability.

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Re: When do you fold???, Michael S Mantel, 30. Oct 2002 12:23
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These are standard problems. I forget which oif the classic texts is stuctured this way, but it talks about early, middle and late position hands. Study.
mm
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Re: When do you fold???, Charles Kincy, 30. Oct 2002 19:21
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1 [KK overpair]: If you call, you have to call all the way. There are 13 bets in the pot, so you don't have the odds to draw for a set anyway. The only reason you call would be if you could put the opponent on less than a set. If you can, then there is nothing wrong with calling all the way.

A lot of people will play Q7 in middle position. You're now drawing to 8 outs--this, plus the small chance that you have the best hand anyway justifies running it down.

In a higher-limit game, you end up having to call anyway, because AQ will give you precisely this much action. In fact, you would consider raising again on the turn if a blank fell.

2 [set of 2s]: Raise the flop (taking the chance that you're beat already, of course). However, the flush kills you, IMO. Somone else probably already has two pair,. so you don't have all ten outs...if you had top set, you could definitely call, but now I think the right thing is to fold.

3 [AQ top pair]: Lay it down. This is a small pot and not worth overplaying a hand for.

4 [KJ top pair]: Yeah, what kinda crap did he call you with anyway?

It's a close decision between raising, folding, and calling. Helpful, I know. Just letting you know that whatever you did here was probably right.

5 [AA]: Unless you KNOW that player will not bet with less than a flush, you should call. You give up way too much if you don't.

6 [77AJ/7J, possibly second-best]: Slow playing is dangerous, but I don't think smooth calling three bets is a bad play in this rare case.

OK, sure, you could be losing to AA or JJ or A7, but you can't spend your whole life afraid of monsters under the bed. Your agressive opponent could also have AJ and the other one could have the case 7--that's best-case, but you need to collect if that's the case.

To be honest, I would hate betting the river, because then I'd feel like I'd have to fold if I got raised. But I'd probably call like a dumbass.
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Re: When do you fold???, Piers Majestyk, 31. Oct 2002 07:04
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> 1) Your in the cutoff when you're dealt KK. A poor player UTG limps, a middle
> position player limps, you raise, the button and the blinds fold.
>
> The flop comes Q 7 3 rainbow (suits will not be important for this hand.
>
> The UTG player checks, middle position bets, you raise, the UTG player calls
> two bets cold and the middle position player 3 bets. What do you do? If you take
> another card, by just calling, what do you do if you don't catch a king?
>
I just call the reraise and barring an Ace or Queen on the turn I raise him when he leads out on the turn. I doubt that he has a set, more likely AQ, I would prehaps put the other weak player on a Q bad kicker.
If I get reraised on the turn I am probably in a world of hurt but I would call him down. If he just calls my raise on turn I will probably bet river also barring an Ace or Queen on river.
>
> 2) Your in late position and limp into a family pot with 22. We're going to see
> the flop 7 handed.
>
> Flop comes JT2 (2 hearts)
>
> There is a bet a raise and a reraise and a 3 bet before it gets to you. What is
> your strategy here on the flop? I would probably just dump it here, if you are not already crushed there are just two many ways to lose, probably the only card you can hit for improvement is your other 2 as I would have to put one of the other guys on J10 at least.
The turn brings a Kh. You know you're in trouble
> and there are two bets awaiting your call.
>
>
> 3) You were dealt AQ from late position in a relatively tight game and you
> bring it in for a raise. The BB calls and you see the flop heads up.
>
> Flop brings Q 7 4 (suits are unimportant)
>
> BB checks, you bet, BB calls
>
> Turn brings a 7
>
> BB checks, you bet, BB raises
>
> What do you do? You have only been at the table with this player for about 10
> hands and have no feel for him or her.
>
> I call him down, if he has the 7 then he is going to get a few extra chips from me.
> 4) You're on the button and dealt KJ. Its folded to you and you decide to go
> for the steal. BB calls. Head's up on the way to the flop.
>
> The flop brings a nice looking J 9 2 rainbow
>
> You bet, the BB calls
>
> Turn brings an innocuous-looking 5 when, all of the sudden, the BB comes out
> betting!! Uh-oh...what to do?
> Again I am going to call him down, I myself will call with a very wide variety of hands in the BB when facing only a late position raiser. The guy very well could have hit two pair here but if he did he played it badly in my opinion as he should have let you bet and raised you on the turn or bet the flop and then feign weakness on the turn to give you a chance to bet and then pop you. Again I am going to call this guy down, if he has two pair then I still have a number of cards that can beat him and if has less then thanks buddy for the extra chips.
> 5) You see the flop 4 handed with AhAs. You have raised it to 3 bets before the
> flop and watch as 2 players call 2 bets cold.
>
> Flop comes Jd 7s 4d
>
> Everyone checks to you, you bet, 3 players call.
>
> Turn brings a Ks.
>
> Once again, it is checked to you when you bet and everyone else calls.
>
> The River brings a dreaded 6d.
>
> The first player bets and the second one folds. What do you do?
> As bad as I hate to I would probably just muck them, if he doesn't have a flush he could very well have 76, he is not bluffing with less than two pair here because he knows with the size of the pot that he is going to get called, save your chips.
>
> 6) You are in the big blind and dealt J7. 4 players see the flop.
>
> The flop comes 77A.
>
> A raise and a reraise on the flop. How do you play it here????
>
> Turn brings a J giving you 7s full. More action and you decide to bet out here.
> Would you do this? You get raised and a player trapped in the middle calls the
> bets cold and you decide to reraise and the original raiser caps it? What's
> going on and what should you do?
> If you led into the field on the flop I probably would have played it that way myself as in my opinion most people that hit trips on the flop check so as no to give themselves away therefore I lead so perhaps I am not put on a 7, I put the first raiser on an Ace and the second guy on another 7 (probably not A7 as he would wait until the turn to raise instead of reraising here). I would call the initial raises on the flop. When the J hits the turn I would check and let the raiser bet and reraise when it got back to me, if I get reraised then I am just going to have to call him down but I just can't put him on JJ or AA or even A7 the way it went down, maybe I am in for a surprise though.
>
> In some of these hands I had the best hand and in some I had a second best
> hand. I'll give you the answers later. I do realize that the correct answer in
> the given situation is not necessarily THE correct answer, but these are typical
> hands that are interesting nonetheless. Correct play in these situations can
> make a huge difference in profitability.
>
>
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Re: When do you fold???, Piers Shepperson, 31. Oct 2002 13:46
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1
FLOP: Well it depends somewhat how aggressive middle position player is. I assume by UTG being poor, you mean he is loose passive. In which case as long as long he is calling I’ll make it four bets. I don’t see why MP can’t have AQ or KQ perhaps with a back door flush.

TURN: On the turn I will make sure there is at least one bet, and try to keep UTG in.

2
PRE FLOP: I am superstitions about twos, and would fold pre flop as a result; For some reason I never seem to get good results with them.

FLOP: Make sure it’s capped. This does not look like the sort of game where I can be convinced there is a higher set out.

TURN: Call looking for the board to pair. I don’t want to raise and risk driving anyone out. Depending on the action I might even call the river if the board does not pair.

3
If it’s my last hand of Poker (ever) fold, otherwise call him down. The bluffing opportunity is fairly clear, and you have a big hole that can be exploited if you regularly fold top pair top kicker in this position. Besides if he is bluffing that information will be a big bonus.

I always try and make it a priority to identify the people who can pull this sort of bluff.

4
I don’t think raising with KJo on the button is stealing, you would like loose calls.

Unless BB is completely transparent you can’t fold this. I would call him down. If he is bluffing hopefully he will have another go on the river, and if he has hit two pair, I still have plenty of outs and will raise the river If I can beat 75 or 54. If 55 I just hope I don’t improve.

5
Is he bluffing this less then 8% of the time?

6
FLOP: The key here is not to fold, anything else ok.

TURN: If I understand correctly the flop was not raised so the chance of AA or JJ has been reduced. Just how aggressive is the raiser, and just how tight is the caller? Do either of them limp in with big pairs? I think check raising is also OK, especially if you did not raise the flop. Deicide which of your opponents look weakest and try to trap him in the middle.

Think I would feel uneasy when capped as well.

RIVER: If it goes check bet raise form the caller, I review the answers to the questions above.
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Re: When do you fold???, Roy Cooke, 1. Nov 2002 15:42
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My responces will be after the hands!

Roy Cooke!

on 29. Oct 2002 21:44 Dice wrote:
> A few problems from some real hands in low-limit online games. I'm doing this
> exercise because some of these hands gave me problems. I'll give everyone a
> chance to answer these and give you the hands, who won, and how I handled the
> situation. I got to see each of these hands at showdown whether it was because I
> called the final bet or an opponent did so.
>
>
> 1) Your in the cutoff when you're dealt KK. A poor player UTG limps, a middle
> position player limps, you raise, the button and the blinds fold.
>
> The flop comes Q 7 3 rainbow (suits will not be important for this hand.
>
> The UTG player checks, middle position bets, you raise, the UTG player calls
> two bets cold and the middle position player 3 bets. What do you do? If you take
> another card, by just calling, what do you do if you don't catch a king?

Roy Cooke: How does this player play? Would he three bet you with a queen? A call on the flop is definately correct even if you are going to fold if you don't catch a king! If he would raise with a queen you are going to have to pay him off. I would only raise if my opponent is extremely overaggressive AND would pay off with a queen or worse!

>
>
> 2) Your in late position and limp into a family pot with 22. We're going to see
> the flop 7 handed.
>
> Flop comes JT2 (2 hearts)
>
> There is a bet a raise and a reraise and a 3 bet before it gets to you. What is
> your strategy here on the flop?

Roy Cooke: I would 4-bet as there are many draws out there on this texture of flop!

The turn brings a Kh. You know you're in trouble
> and there are two bets awaiting your call.

Roy Cooke: You may have ten wins here nad be around a 3.5-1 dog in which case a call is probably in order giving the size of the pot. Understand you may get rerasied after you call. If someone has two bigger pair your odds go down significantly and it is worse yet if they have a bigger set (Unlikely since the pre-flop was not raised). You do not give the number of opponents so I can't figure out the price....But this is a price depenent equation.
>
>
> 3) You were dealt AQ from late position in a relatively tight game and you
> bring it in for a raise. The BB calls and you see the flop heads up.
>
> Flop brings Q 7 4 (suits are unimportant)
>
> BB checks, you bet, BB calls
>
> Turn brings a 7
>
> BB checks, you bet, BB raises
>
> What do you do? You have only been at the table with this player for about 10
> hands and have no feel for him or her.

Roy Cooke: If you have no feel I think you pay off, since you can beat any queen. But you should have some kind of feel. Is this player someone you think is aggressive??? Do they have the courage to bluff???
>
>
> 4) You're on the button and dealt KJ. Its folded to you and you decide to go
> for the steal. BB calls. Head's up on the way to the flop.
>
> The flop brings a nice looking J 9 2 rainbow
>
> You bet, the BB calls
>
> Turn brings an innocuous-looking 5 when, all of the sudden, the BB comes out
> betting!! Uh-oh...what to do?

Roy Cooke: Once again this is a funtion of your opponent. What do you think he has and what is the best way to play him to get the best value. In order to answer this question correctly you need to have a feel for your opponent!
>
> 5) You see the flop 4 handed with AhAs. You have raised it to 3 bets before the
> flop and watch as 2 players call 2 bets cold.
>
> Flop comes Jd 7s 4d
>
> Everyone checks to you, you bet, 3 players call.
>
> Turn brings a Ks.
>
> Once again, it is checked to you when you bet and everyone else calls.
>
> The River brings a dreaded 6d.
>
> The first player bets and the second one folds. What do you do?

Roy Cooke: What is the propensity of this player to be bluffing? The higher the propensity the more correct you call would be. If he is the type of player that never bluffs you should fold. Do you understand the logic? The answer is based on the percentage chance of your have your opponent(s) beat vs the size of the pot!
>
>
> 6) You are in the big blind and dealt J7. 4 players see the flop.
>
> The flop comes 77A.
>
> A raise and a reraise on the flop. How do you play it here????
>
> Turn brings a J giving you 7s full. More action and you decide to bet out here.
> Would you do this? You get raised and a player trapped in the middle calls the
> bets cold and you decide to reraise and the original raiser caps it? What's
> going on and what should you do?

Roy Cooke: This depends on what you think your opponents have and how they are going to play it. It is a tough question that requires a lot of knowledge to make the correct answer. Try to trap your opponents for the most bets and keep in mind that you want to take the least amount of risk also!
>
>
> In some of these hands I had the best hand and in some I had a second best
> hand. I'll give you the answers later. I do realize that the correct answer in
> the given situation is not necessarily THE correct answer, but these are typical
> hands that are interesting nonetheless. Correct play in these situations can
> make a huge difference in profitability.

Roy Cooke:

Yes, the answers to these questions is what separates the great players from the also rans......they are good and tough questions with complicated answers. You seem to be on the right track as far as improving your poker game!

Good Luck :-)
Sincerely,
Roy Cooke
>
>
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