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Server Time: 12/3/2008 8:06:05 PM PACIFIC |
 Am I A Winner?, SmellsLikeVictory, 17. Oct 2002 11:06 | ||
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| I've been playing for a year now, almost exclusively online. I started at Paradise .50/1 stud with a $200 buyin and I sucked. Bought the West 7CS book and the S&M SCSFAP and tried to study the game. Discovered I was a loose fish. Put more money in, another $200. I lost it. Then I discovered holdem, like it much better than stud, and tried again with $200. Played .5/1, some 1/2 and even dared play 2/4 (oh my!). Bought the two Skalanky HE books, Jones LL, TOP and read them all. Bought the PokerStat program so I could have a DB of my hands and those of my opponents. I was serious about becoming a winning player. Still I was ground down and lost the buyin. This was over the course of 4-5 months starting last Fall. Frustrated, I gave up for awhile. After being down $600, I decided I give it a rest and come back to it at a later date. I picked it up again this past July with a modest $100 buyin and started playing 1/2 HE. I started re-reading and dogearring my HE books. This time I started winning. Playing anywhere from 1-5 hours nearly every night, I turned the $100 into $600 and I nearly had my previous losses back. I moved up to 2/4. At 2/4 I continued to win until I had nearly 1K and then moved up to 3/6. That became 2K and I moved up to 5/10. So far I had no significant losing streaks, just one great run. And the streak wasn't over. I had a really great week at 5/10, dabbled and won at 8/16 and 10/20 and was pushing over 4K and I decided, what the hell, I'd try to play with the big boys at 20/40. Just to get a taste of where those WSOP guys play online, I knew I didn't have a real bankroll for it yet. But I had a great 80BB night playing real tight, but firing when I had the goods. That led to a nearly 200BB week as I rode those 20/40 winnings. My little $100 buy-in had balooned to nearly 10K! But then it all came to a scretching halt. I gave back 2K one night and over the course of the following two weeks I gave back most of my 20/40 winnings. After a three week ride with the big boys, I was sent back down to the minors and I'm now playing 5/10 again. That $100 is still 5K or so, I'm certainly not unhappy and learned a lot from the masters that play at that level. I wish I could stay up there, but I know I'm not really at that level yet. 5/10 I'm much more comfortable, especially with this bankroll. Ok, so what's the point of all this rambling? My question is; Am I a winning player? I'm winning about a SB an hour, but my SD is 15BB. Is this bad? What's normal? Do I not enough hands (I have 30K in my PokerStat DB) to tell? How many will it take to find out? Has this been a big lucky streak? My PokerStat analysis says I'm getting a normal distribution of hands, so it's not like I'm getting an inordinate amount of AAs dealt to me. Any other advice is appreciated on how I've moved up in limits or other things I should do to try to improve. Ed | ||
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| Re: Am I A Winner?, Jacob, 17. Oct 2002 17:16 | ||
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| Hi there U r a winner when u make 50 ks in a year...or 5 ks in 3 months playing 3/6 SH...thats what I did so I'm a winner :-) By the way I started with 50 $ at paradise a loong time ago went broke once and since then just worked my way up different poker sites nice and easy..in my world steady income, fun and thrill equals a winning player..so long jacob | ||
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| Re: Am I A Winner?, Mike Caro, 17. Oct 2002 18:21 | ||
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| on 17. Oct 2002 11:06 SmellsLikeVictory wrote: > I've been playing for a year now, almost exclusively online. I started at > Paradise .50/1 stud with a $200 buyin and I sucked. Bought the West 7CS book > and the S&M SCSFAP and tried to study the game. Discovered I was a loose fish. > Put more money in, another $200. I lost it. Then I discovered holdem, like it > much better than stud, and tried again with $200. Played .5/1, some 1/2 and > even dared play 2/4 (oh my!). Bought the two Skalanky HE books, Jones LL, TOP > and read them all. Bought the PokerStat program so I could have a DB of my > hands and those of my opponents. I was serious about becoming a winning player. > Still I was ground down and lost the buyin. > > This was over the course of 4-5 months starting last Fall. Frustrated, I gave > up for awhile. After being down $600, I decided I give it a rest and come back > to it at a later date. I picked it up again this past July with a modest $100 > buyin and started playing 1/2 HE. I started re-reading and dogearring my HE > books. This time I started winning. > > Playing anywhere from 1-5 hours nearly every night, I turned the $100 into $600 > and I nearly had my previous losses back. I moved up to 2/4. At 2/4 I > continued to win until I had nearly 1K and then moved up to 3/6. That became 2K > and I moved up to 5/10. So far I had no significant losing streaks, just one > great run. And the streak wasn't over. > > I had a really great week at 5/10, dabbled and won at 8/16 and 10/20 and was > pushing over 4K and I decided, what the hell, I'd try to play with the big boys > at 20/40. Just to get a taste of where those WSOP guys play online, I knew I > didn't have a real bankroll for it yet. But I had a great 80BB night playing > real tight, but firing when I had the goods. That led to a nearly 200BB week as > I rode those 20/40 winnings. My little $100 buy-in had balooned to nearly > 10K! > > But then it all came to a scretching halt. I gave back 2K one night and over > the course of the following two weeks I gave back most of my 20/40 winnings. > After a three week ride with the big boys, I was sent back down to the minors > and I'm now playing 5/10 again. That $100 is still 5K or so, I'm certainly not > unhappy and learned a lot from the masters that play at that level. I wish I > could stay up there, but I know I'm not really at that level yet. 5/10 I'm much > more comfortable, especially with this bankroll. > > Ok, so what's the point of all this rambling? My question is; Am I a winning > player? I'm winning about a SB an hour, but my SD is 15BB. Is this bad? > What's normal? Do I not enough hands (I have 30K in my PokerStat DB) to tell? > How many will it take to find out? Has this been a big lucky streak? My > PokerStat analysis says I'm getting a normal distribution of hands, so it's not > like I'm getting an inordinate amount of AAs dealt to me. Any other advice is > appreciated on how I've moved up in limits or other things I should do to try to > improve. > > Ed Hi, Ed -- I don't know whether your standard deviation (measured in small bets per hour) is too high, too low, or about right. That depends on your style of play AND the style of play of your opponents. Oddly, the biggest winners often have higher standard deviations than smaller winners. That's because the tend to pursue small edges, which have significant fluctuations. They also tend to play against looser and wilder opponents; ditto. What I'm impressed by is that you were willing to bump down to a lower level before losing your entire bankroll. Many players don't do that. They keep promoting themselves until they find their level of incompetence and then either go broke slowly or spin their wheels forever -- the famous "Peter Principal" applied to poker! Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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| Re: Am I A Winner?, JJKerr, 17. Oct 2002 22:14 | ||
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| > I don't know whether your standard deviation (measured in small bets per hour) is > too high, too low, or about right. That depends on your style of play AND the style > of play of your opponents. Oddly, the biggest winners often have higher standard > deviations than smaller winners. That's because the tend to pursue small edges, which > have significant fluctuations. They also tend to play against looser and wilder > opponents; ditto. > > What I'm impressed by is that you were willing to bump down to a lower level before > losing your entire bankroll. Many players don't do that. They keep promoting > themselves until they find their level of incompetence and then either go broke > slowly or spin their wheels forever -- the famous "Peter Principal" applied to > poker! > > Straight Flushes, > Mike Caro > Mike is absolutely right when he says, that, "I'm impressed that you were willing to [go] down to a lower limit after [you had such a sizable loss] and didn't lose your whole bankroll." This is a key lesson that has to be learned if you want to be a "successful" pro. It is a lesson that must be learned. If you never learn this very important lesson your bankroll(s) are always going to be in jepordy around the corner. There are a lot of factors involved. What I'm talking about are the emotional factors. The need to get back the money that has been lost can be, and is, great. Especially if it is a signigicant amount (playing higher limits and limits too high) Of course sometimes it is neccisary to take a little risk and take a shot at a little higher limit. But players get into trouble when they go up to high and find themselves emotionally involved in the poker game. They might get stuck an amount that would take them a while to win back at a lower limit. And while your in the poker game you will want to get it back in that game. When you go to a limit that is high you'll feel as I like to call it... "the Juice" (adrenilen). When your in that position your poker decisions will become a little unfocused and that can spell disaster if you don't cut your losses early and get out of the game. To be a solid professional you must (I believe) a gameplan before entering this kind of high(er) limit game. I think a stop loss strategy is good here. To keep your bankroll alive and intact for when you'll need it, >>tommorow<<!!, and, beyond. With internet poker I think it is easier to do this. And by the way let me add that internet poker I think is the best place to hone your skills and strategy, and can give you lots of experience and refine your tactics in your golf bag. And I think that it is best to put them back in your golf bag when your done playing and put it away properly in your closet or something. What I'm talking about is this. You have the mental tools that are neccisary to beat poker. Value betting, bluffing, slow playing... ect. What you need now to take your game to the next level is to buy a golf bag and some golf clubs. Now you should label the different clubs w/ the various poker strategies that are in your poker arsenal. While your playing or before, you go to your golf bag and take a few practice swings. If you want to take your game to a new level you'll have your golf bag nearby and take out the club which signifies the poker tactic you're using at the moment. When your done with your session put the golf bag back in the closet. That it! Can I get back to poker now? Seriously. All right that was fun but, let me just say a few things in closing. Sometimes it is more benifical to stay in the game (higher limit what have you) and it works out and you get most, or all of your money back. But if this doesn't happen... if you find yourself on tilt (emotionally involved in a poker game). Taking a break, watching some tv (but it's not tv anymore... ... it's hbo) or taking a sleeping pill and going to bed. This can do miraculous wonders for your bankroll. You should never continue to play when... when you are having a bad run and you start to feel emotional or even worse... you are angry at what is transpiring and you stop caring. That is the time to stop. Tommorow you will feel 100%better and your bankroll will still be there so you can ante up and comeback. To learn this lesson may take making the wrong decision and going broke 4 times, 5 times, 6 times, before you finnally learn how to be good to your bankroll. And as Mike says, "some never learn and keep spinning their wheels" Not only do you need to learn from experience. But you will learn from study too. For serious professonals... it is a must that you have studied (Mike Caro) And... you must study and master your poker skills... and I very highly recommend you buy Mike Caros (hey Mike I don't mean to kiss your butox or anything [no I do]) tape cassets. Pro Poker secrets, Holdem secrets, Real Life Strategy, and it is a must that you have {POSITIVE POKER} this is the most important message on poker "of all time" I bought Mikes package, w/ his professonal reports and the tapes,... I don't know ... about 6 years ago (it was like $100 bucks or someting) After I read CFSOP. When I started out. If you have the money... you must buy these cassetts. And the professonal reports are packed w/ information. God I love professonal poker. I hope I was of some help Yo I'm out. No flush :-/ JJ Kerr | ||
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