|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 8/21/2008 9:24:30 PM PACIFIC |
 where u do u draw the line?, darling, 1. Oct 2002 06:00 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| ive been playing alot of shorthanded handed holdem lately,10-20 up to 20-40(online of course) i have a question for mike caro or roy cooke i hold my own in these games and they are usually aggresive to very very aggresive, however i would like to know where do u draw the line calling in the big blind when playing guys like phil hellmuth who are raising 70 percent of the hands preflop. do u call with 10-8 or 7-8 or j-5 for a single raise? most hands are heads up,i typically call with just two cards 9 and over,pockets and any ace (except the a-2) should i be calling k-5 etc etc? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: where u do u draw the line?, Andrew Wells, 1. Oct 2002 20:26 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| On hands that you would come in with for one bet from the raisers seat don't just call. If someone is running over the game you will need to reraise out of the big blind more. This may not slow them down yet, but you will be looking to checkraise on the flop even as a semibluff. The important thing is to play back at someone who is involved with and raising 70% of his hands. The rest of the blind hands that can call preflop are for defending against what is likely to be a steal attempt. You still need to play well out of position after the flop, but these are reasonable defending hands: Any pocket pair, any ace-rag, K8 or better, Q9 or better, medium connectors, plus some one gap hands like 97 86 and 75. If you hit the flop strong, you can also just check call the whole way heads up against Phil and really set him off. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: where u do u draw the line?, Roy Cooke, 2. Oct 2002 01:28 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Tough question.....I would consider the 10-8 and the 87 as long as I am not getting outplayed by the person after the flop. If I am, I would consider quitting the game unless there are other VERY good reasons to play. When you are playing short....you CANNOT let very aggressive players rob you continiously. You must defend. I would play back in spots..but not routinely (I am assuming a quality opponent that reads situations). I would never call the J5o! The correct answer lies in how you do in play after the flop and the propensity of your opponet to try to rob you. The greater the propensity of your opponent to rob and the greater your advantage (Or lower your disadvantage) in play after the flop...the looser you should call. I know that doesn't answer the question directly...but these types of questions need to be addressed conceptually.....there are no hard and fast answers! Roy Cooke on 1. Oct 2002 06:00 darling wrote: > ive been playing alot of shorthanded handed holdem lately,10-20 up to > 20-40(online of course) > i have a question for mike caro or roy cooke > i hold my own in these games and they are usually aggresive to very very > aggresive, however i would like to know where do u draw the line calling in the > big blind when playing guys like phil hellmuth who are raising 70 percent of the > hands preflop. > do u call with 10-8 or 7-8 or j-5 for a single raise? > most hands are heads up,i typically call with just two cards 9 and over,pockets > and any ace (except the a-2) > should i be calling k-5 etc etc? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: where u do u draw the line?, JJKerr, 12. Oct 2002 04:46 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I use defencive measures ...I would go into a defensive crouch... you must play better than average hands against this ultra aggresive play. This player has position #1 where he can (if he was me) get free cards, bluff, bet bigger pairs on the flop into your underpairs. He is going to be able to outplay you throughout cause your guessing too much and when your guessing wrong your paying. You need a hand that you can defend your blind w/ (if you were me) like a king 8 or a med suited connector (87s) and similar flushes w/ straight possibilities) You need a hand that you can manuver w/ on the flop (if you connect) and you also need a high card or cards where you can hit your big pair. If he bluffs or bets too much you just check and call w/ Top pair. And if it is a rag flop and say you have a pair of 7's and there is a big card like a Queen ... or something where you feel he is acting strong when weak in a situation... you just call. Raising or reraising will often get you into trouble against these players (especially w/ over aggresive players. You really need close to the nuts to justify assertive raising and reraising... often these players suprize you with powerful hands (I'm just talking about internet poker I havent played a live game in a year but I am returning to Eagle Pass soon) I wouldn't even reraise w/ QQ in these High limit games in the blind position. It is better to play it straight forward on the flop or to check if that is better. Lets say u look down and it's the AhQh He makes a steal raise or whatever ... his image is very strong at this point... I'm saying you could raise... BUT! ... the problem is, this could possibly put you in a position to play your hand poorly on the flop and on... Like Caro says if a below break even player is trying to bully the game you must let him. The key is to pick him off when he is destorying himself... by letting him bet hands where u know you have the edge. And you can value bet and check raise when you have a good hand and a correct read on his bluff. W/ the ace queen you can save bets and make more money defensively against a maniac. you could call till the showdown and if the board is right see if your AQ high can hold up and you will lose less than if you start bluffing back at him I have gotton rid of most of my blind reraises unless I choose to w/ AK AA KK maybe JJ ... but this reraise gives away too much information sometimes and puts you in a bad spot it's still good w/ AK AA and KK ... but lets say you got 88 just call and then you will have better information what to do on the flop... and you will save money. The key is to save money and punish when you connect a stronger hand and he also has a strong hand that he will push too far. If your playing Phil Helmuth your in a little trouble. But let me reinterate defensive will gather the money. Also it is smart to get out of these games early ... trust me they are not going to be good for your bankroll. It is better to find a lower limit game that your bankroll can handle and opponents that are just playing poorly. But against over aggresion (like when a players raises in his blind w/ trash) you need to go w/ the flow and take down the pot w/ med hands and quality hands. Sometimes you find a player on tilt bluffing and cause he's bluffing he thinks your trying to bluff him to so he might raise you ... a hand just came up like this on Paradise... I had KJo flop came 3QQ I decided to bluff into 3 players (rarely will I do this but I had a good hand for a few hands and this certain player was calling w/ nothing and on tilt... anyway 2 players fold and bluffin billy calls. turn is a six and I bet... he calls river is a 6 3QQ66 so I check he bets and I call w/ KJ... he has 35o I take it down w/ King high.. next hand: K9 (bb) .... flop is K3K ... I check to the bluffer .. he bets... turn is a 3 (K3K3) I check he bets ... I... raise... he reraises ... I cap.... river is 6 I bet he calls .... K3K36 He's got A6. I got a 4 bet on the turn and a bet on the river. No flushes Jonathan Kerr | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network |
|