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Server Time: 12/3/2008 4:34:21 PM PACIFIC |
 Turbo texas holdem - and a general natter, Hatchet Harry, 13. Sep 2002 05:35 | ||
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| Just come back from a lovely weeks holiday in Alcudia. Managed to devour 3 holdem books in my break. Have to say that Lee Jones and Lou Kriegers books are absolutely brilliant and the good thing was that LJ's book was more statistical whereas I love the way that Lou compares holdem to life situations. That said, I have an even bigger craving to cram more information in now. I intend to play a bit and let the new found basic knowledge sink in, before I go readin more advanced stuff but there was one product that did catch my eye. Is the turbo holdem software something that I should be investing 90 bucks in?. Will it help my game anymore than i could get from the books. It goes without saying that i know i'm an information junkie, but I've only been back 6 hours and i've already destroyed two online 10 seater NLHE tournies. LOL i even managed to fold AJo suit in early position..... (It woulda won tho!). Anyway's any advice on the software would be appreciated. It's also great to see that in only a week, there's been 120 posts for me to meander through. Nice to see the board doing so well. Cheers! HH | ||
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| Re: Turbo texas holdem - and a general natter, backdoor, 14. Sep 2002 20:10 | ||
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| Dear Hatchet Harry, Turbo Texas Holdem by Wilson has a decent although very awkward simulation component that can be useful for conducting poker theory research. As for playing the game itself, as a player, NO, I do not recommend it. I do no believe it will improve your game at the level you are at now. It might help complete beginners. As for the the simulation component, a great deal of work,effort and poker theory background is required to get meaningful research results. So the answer to your question is probably no, IMO. Regards. | ||
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| Re: Turbo texas holdem - and a general natter, Hatchet Harry, 15. Sep 2002 01:37 | ||
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| Thx backdoor, Think you just saved me 90 bucks of me hard earn't Regards HH | ||
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| Re: Turbo texas holdem - and a general natter, Easy E, 16. Sep 2002 18:41 | ||
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| You might want to get more than one person's evaluation on this... I believe that there are a lot of people who think the software is pretty good, including Mike Caro and Lou Krieger if I'm not mistaken... | ||
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| Re: Turbo texas holdem - and a general natter, Easy E, 16. Sep 2002 18:43 | ||
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| Oops, almost forgot Roy and Abdul.. among others | ||
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| Re: Turbo texas holdem - and a general natter, Mike Caro, 16. Sep 2002 19:19 | ||
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| on 16. Sep 2002 18:41 Easy E wrote: > You might want to get more than one person's evaluation on this... I believe that there are a > lot of people who think the software is pretty good, including Mike Caro and Lou Krieger if I'm > not mistaken... Yes, I highly recommend and have endorsed Bob Wilson's Turbo Texas Hold 'em and other Wilson products. Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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| Re: Turbo texas holdem - and a general natter, backdoor, 16. Sep 2002 20:54 | ||
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| As one who has conducted many hundreds of modified high level simulations on TTH, my opinion to Harry was based on his specific needs, not the overall quality of the software. The game portion of the software, IMO, can lead to simplistic thinking, impatience, repeated theorectical errors and some other problems. It IS very useful to learn how things work, practice basic strategies, and get a general feel for the game. If that's worth the price to someone, good. I believe it is quite limited in use beyond this level, and may even harm growth. The simulation portion also has problems and can lead to many false conclusions. Again, in my opinion. I believe significant control measures and modifications are needed to make most simulations reliable. I know, I have been there, and done that. Most of all, Easy E is right, one should seek other opinions on this and everything else for that matter. Regards. | ||
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| Re: Turbo texas holdem - and a general natter, Easy E, 17. Sep 2002 06:36 | ||
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| Backdoor, I don't know what version (Turbo Holdem, I assume?) you had experience with, but you might want to revisit your conclusions.... And there aren't many games out there where you can replay your hands continuously, tweaking small factors in order to repeat actions under differing conditions and actions.... | ||
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| Re: Turbo texas holdem - and a general natter, Mike Caro, 17. Sep 2002 06:41 | ||
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| on 16. Sep 2002 20:54 backdoor wrote: > As one who has conducted many hundreds of modified high level simulations on TTH, my opinion to Harry was > based on his specific needs, not the overall quality of the software. > > The game portion of the software, IMO, can lead to simplistic thinking, impatience, repeated > theorectical errors and some other problems. > > It IS very useful to learn how things work, practice basic strategies, and get a general feel for the > game. If that's worth the price to someone, good. I believe it is quite limited in use beyond this level, > and may even harm growth. > > The simulation portion also has problems and can lead to many false conclusions. Again, in my opinion. I > believe significant control measures and modifications are needed to make most simulations reliable. I > know, I have been there, and done that. > > Most of all, Easy E is right, one should seek other opinions on this and everything else for that > matter. > > Regards. Hi, backdoor -- I wasn't thinking in terms of Harry's specific requirements when I replied, acknowledging that I endorsed and recommended Turbo Texas Hold 'em. I agree with you that the artificial intelligence part (the way the opponents actually play) is imperfect and could, therefore, encourage bad habits in some cases. I worked for years developing computer strategies to play excellent poker. I know how difficult that is, and I don't think that's the primary focus of TTH. However, imperfect strategies might be better in some cases in assessing how you'd fare against typical, flawed opponents. So, I think TTH is a good tool for that. By the way, I will soon begin to announce (right here on the United Poker Forum) the results of a long-term study from Mike Caro University of Poker Labs, called Project Y-06. I've already announced a couple results elsewhere, indirectly as responses to other discussions. Project Y-06 is based on millions of hands and shows the actual real-money results for various hands played in different positions and under contrasting sets of circumstances. It's based on statistical analysis of a database acquired by MCU. From these results (which I'll make available to the public for writers, experts, and anyone to analyze), I will publish enhanced strategies in the near future. I believe these will be superior even to my own previous analysis and simulations in many regards, as they are based on how real opponents played for real money. Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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