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Server Time: 2/13/2012 8:28:09 AM PACIFIC |
 $80-$160 Hand, Jim Brier, 7. Sep 2002 23:49 | ||
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| This is a 9-handed $80-$160 game at the Bellagio. I am in the big blind with the Ah-Qh. Two early players, a middle player, the cutoff, the button, and the small blind all limp. This is extremely unusual for this game. I raise. Everyone calls. There are 14 small bets in the pot ($1120) and seven players. The flop is: Kc-9h-3d, giving me a backdoor nut-flush draw with an ace overcard. The small blind checks. What should I do? I will post the results later. | ||
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| Re: $80-$160 Hand, 3Kings, 8. Sep 2002 00:11 | ||
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| I am probably wrong, but I would check with the intention of folding. You have 5 people to act behind you and it is almost certain one of them has a king. The backdoor flush gives you playing possibilities and the pot odds are good but being out of position and with the possibility your Ace may not be any good even if it does hit, a fold is probably best. As with most things, it depends on how well you know the hand selection and playing style of the people to act. If you think, one bet will drive some people out and you won't get raised back, give it a try. If a heart or A hits the turn, bet again, if not, check, and try again next time. | ||
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| Re: $80-$160 Hand (It Depends), timmer, 8. Sep 2002 08:10 | ||
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| Sep 2002 23:49 Jim Brier wrote: > This is a 9-handed $80-$160 game at the Bellagio. I am in the big blind with the > Ah-Qh. Two early players, a middle player, the cutoff, the button, and the small > blind all limp. This is extremely unusual for this game. I raise. Everyone > calls. There are 14 small bets in the pot ($1120) and seven players. The flop > is: Kc-9h-3d, giving me a backdoor nut-flush draw with an ace overcard. The > small blind checks. What should I do? > > I will post the results later. Jim, \ you also have a redraw at a nut str8 and a redraw at the second nut str8 but any way. I check and hope the field checks. I doubt this will happen. so I hope a bettor to my immediate left puts it in . this way I ll be the last or one of the last to act on this round and have information about whether or not I 'll be faced with a raise or double raise to see the turn. If its a double raise I no play. if a bet comes in to my right I no play ( lots of players behind me could raise and Im stuck in between with a long shot ). and if the turn hits me Ill likely be playing till the river. On the other hand you could bet out and KO a few of the players and get some dead money in the pot . However since the main strength of your hand is the B door 5 card hand draws why would I want to lower the equity of such a hand by eliminating several contributors. So it seems obvious to me, setting aside the fact that I know nothing about the players in this game, that to check and call seems reasonable if I can see the turn for a small bet. however if I think it may cost me a large bet or more I dont think Id risk it unless I though I could win it by hitting my hand once. If this were the case (although here I doubt that it is ) I'd probably go ahead and bet out on the flop. Both these actions would seem natural coming from the big blind. however knowing you and how you are viewed by most players in your regular game Betting out may be more appropriate. because if you hit your hand (or a scary card comes)on the turn you might be able to take it away from them with your turn bets. But with a pot of this size I kind of doubt it. of course I haven’t even looked at this problem from a odds point of view and I have no idea on how this hand will be played because I know absolutely nothing about the players or the texture of the game. thanks for posting it -t | ||
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| Re: $80-$160 Hand, BLUESMAN, 8. Sep 2002 09:43 | ||
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| I must be missing something as I don't see this as a close question,there's a lot of money in this pot and I think You shoulld go for it immediately.The king doesn't give me pause since anyone with a king and a decent kicker probably would have raised pre-flop,it looks to me like there's a bunch of guys trying to hang around and get lucky. Your pre-flop raise coupled with your image as an intelligent conservstive player and a bet here will likely drop most of your opponents even if it doesn't you have a lot of outs.Unless something bad like a raising war breaks out I would play this hand fast all the way to the river. | ||
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| Re: $80-$160 Hand, Roy Cooke, 8. Sep 2002 15:46 | ||
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| Hi Jim I would probably check. It would depend (:-)) on the texture of the other players and my image. However, a king is likely to be out and any gutter will take one off as the price is correct. Since you are out of position, players calling puts you in a tough spot on the turn. Also in the 80 game players will often move on you and the hand is VERY vulnerable. Roy Cooke on 7. Sep 2002 23:49 Jim Brier wrote: > This is a 9-handed $80-$160 game at the Bellagio. I am in the big blind with the > Ah-Qh. Two early players, a middle player, the cutoff, the button, and the small > blind all limp. This is extremely unusual for this game. I raise. Everyone > calls. There are 14 small bets in the pot ($1120) and seven players. The flop > is: Kc-9h-3d, giving me a backdoor nut-flush draw with an ace overcard. The > small blind checks. What should I do? > > I will post the results later. | ||
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| Re: $80-$160 Hand, Yvonne, 19. Sep 2002 06:25 | ||
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| I would bet out, if someone raises I would re-raise. Either that or check the flop with the intention of checkraising if most players checked and a Late position player bet. If there was a lot of action after my initial check I would strongly consider folding. Your backdoor is something like 23 to 1, leaving you with 3 outs to your Ace. Your only way to win this pot might very well be by continuing to show aggression up front. Yvonne | ||
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| Results, Jim Brier, 8. Sep 2002 18:34 | ||
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| I checked. Everyone checked. The turn is the 8h, giving me the nut-flush draw. The small blind checks. I bet. I am hoping to win the pot outright and I have many outs if I get called. Everyone folds to the cutoff who calls. The small blind and the button both fold. The river is the 2c, a complete bustout. I check the nut non-pair hand. My opponent bets. I call, hoping to beat a busted draw of some kind. My opponent wins with the As-9s for a pair of nines. A top $30-$60 pro, who is a mutual friend of Roy Cooke's and myself, was adamant that I should have bet the flop. He stated that I should continue to represent a big hand. Otherwise, players with middle pairs and bottom pairs will promote themselves. This was a great flop for the hand I was representing (AA, KK, or AK perhaps?). If the flop were more coordinated then checking the flop would be fine. But this flop is king-rag-rag (almost) and rainbow. If no one raises, he thought I should bet the turn and the river. A guy with a pair of nines will have a tough time staying with me. But when I checked the flop, he has a much easier time. Checking the flop prevents a bluff bet at the river from being effective. | ||
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| Re: Results, Andrew Wells, 8. Sep 2002 19:12 | ||
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| It was the bet on the turn that did you in. Having picked up the good draw, I would be thinking checkraise semibluff. I was posting my reply while you added the results. I think if you bet the hand the whole way, the cutoff calls you down with such a large pot and no possible completed draw on the board. He would be getting 11:1 on the river that you held an unimproved ace. | ||
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| Re: $80-$160 Hand, Andrew Wells, 8. Sep 2002 18:54 | ||
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| You raised from the blind pre-flop in a rare multiway pot, and shown strength. If someone has top pair they probably don't like their kicker much. So, how do you get kings to fold? There's pot odds for anyone with any pair or a gut shot to stay with you. I would check, hope the bet comes from late position or no one calls before it gets back to you, and raise. I think your best possibility is to move on the pot early if the conditions are just right. If you are unable to isolate then just fold. If you get more than one customer on the flop (someone called the checkraise cold) and don't improve on the turn, then check with the intention of folding. If you are able to isolate and don't improve, try to steal it on the turn. Check the turn if you pick up a draw. Simply leading into that large a field on the flop isn't going to help, you need to stop someone from trying to take the pot away on the turn. When you raise from the blind before the flop and then checkraise, there's enough deception to even get a free card out of position on the turn. Unless you catch an ace on the turn and it holds up, you're going to need to hit twice. This way you have the best chance of getting to the river for only four small bets. | ||
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