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Server Time: 12/3/2008 11:24:17 PM PACIFIC |
 tourney question, tommyhawk, 7. Sep 2002 06:46 | ||
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| hi all, i have question about a hand i played (didn't ) yesterday in a tournament which i then thought was a good thing to do but now i am not so sure and i think i made a mistake. 10$ hold em no limit tourn. with 165 players we are down to the last 19 players and i am in the money (not much but i am in ) with a stack ranked 16 out of 19. I am in last position with only the blinds left to act and i get pocket jacks. UTG goes all inn with 5.000 i have 6.000. Everybody folds and it comes to me with the blinds left to act behind me. The UTG is a very tight player whom i saw win at the showdown only with AK, KK or AQs. After one minute of thinking i am to afraid of an A,K or Q hitting the flop...i fold. Big blind (large stack calls with A9s) takes it to a showdown and utg wins with pocket 10's....if i played it i would have been way up. I finished 12th with winning the same money as i would have had finished 19. Funny enough i had p10's and lost to pk's. Who would have played it and who wouldn't and why? thx for your time , tommyhawk. | ||
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| Re: tourney question, 3Kings, 7. Sep 2002 10:39 | ||
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| If you thought you had the best hand, you should have went all-in as well, having only $1000 more than the bet. You can't worry what "might" hit the flop. On the other hand, if you thought the UTG player (who you said was tight) had a better hand, then a fold wasn't a bad play. It all depends on your read of the player. Also, what were the blinds at this point. If you had at least ten times the blinds, you could afford to sit and wait. If you had 4 times the blinds, this would be a good time to go all-in. You didn't say what the cutoff was for more money but it had to be higher than 12th place as that is what you finished at. Therefore you are going to have to go all-in at some point to get a bigger stack. I would have gone all-in as I have a solid hand, and even though the UTG played premium hands, there was only a 1 in 3 chance that he had AA, KK. or QQ if he played hands containing only Aces, Kings,.or Queens. Plus, depending on the blinds, I would need money to pay them. This is where the professionals make (or lose) their money and reputations. | ||
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| Re: tourney question, Roy Cooke, 7. Sep 2002 13:19 | ||
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| I would have played the hand and gone all-in. The UTG player was faced with the blinds next hand and was in a forced position, he could hold a marginal hand. Since 12th paid the same as 19th, you need to be in an aggressive mode...those who play tournments to win.....tend to win.....those who play to cash tend to get ground down. Faint hearts don't win poker tournaments! Roy Cooke on 7. Sep 2002 06:46 tommyhawk wrote: > hi all, > > i have question about a hand i played (didn't ) yesterday in a tournament which > i then thought was a good thing to do but now i am not so sure and i think i > made a mistake. > > 10$ hold em no limit tourn. with 165 players we are down to the last 19 players > and i am in the money (not much but i am in ) with a stack ranked 16 out of > 19. > I am in last position with only the blinds left to act and i get pocket jacks. > UTG goes all inn with 5.000 i have 6.000. Everybody folds and it comes to me > with the blinds left to act behind me. > The UTG is a very tight player whom i saw win at the showdown only with AK, KK > or AQs. > After one minute of thinking i am to afraid of an A,K or Q hitting the flop...i > fold. > Big blind (large stack calls with A9s) takes it to a showdown and utg wins > with pocket 10's....if i played it i would have been way up. > > I finished 12th with winning the same money as i would have had finished 19. > Funny enough i had p10's and lost to pk's. > > Who would have played it and who wouldn't and why? > thx for your time , > tommyhawk. > | ||
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| Re: tourney question, Sam, 7. Sep 2002 16:36 | ||
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| I got to agree with Roy 100% on that one. But it can be damn hard to get to the point in your game where you can correlate all the info Roy picked up from your post in the time you have with the other pressures of keeping tabs on the table. Thats what seperates a "good" from a "great" one. Or as my piasano uncle Tony would have put it...no balls no blue chips. You guys should start numbering this threads posts. Good one Roy! Sam on 7. Sep 2002 13:19 Roy Cooke wrote: > I would have played the hand and gone all-in. The UTG player was faced with the > blinds next hand and was in a forced position, he could hold a marginal hand. Since > 12th paid the same as 19th, you need to be in an aggressive mode...those who play > tournments to win.....tend to win.....those who play to cash tend to get ground down. > > > Faint hearts don't win poker tournaments! > > Roy Cooke > > on 7. Sep 2002 06:46 tommyhawk wrote: > > hi all, > > > > i have question about a hand i played (didn't ) yesterday in a tournament which > > i then thought was a good thing to do but now i am not so sure and i think i > > made a mistake. > > > > 10$ hold em no limit tourn. with 165 players we are down to the last 19 players > > and i am in the money (not much but i am in ) with a stack ranked 16 out of > > 19. > > I am in last position with only the blinds left to act and i get pocket jacks. > > UTG goes all inn with 5.000 i have 6.000. Everybody folds and it comes to me > > with the blinds left to act behind me. > > The UTG is a very tight player whom i saw win at the showdown only with AK, KK > > or AQs. > > After one minute of thinking i am to afraid of an A,K or Q hitting the flop...i > > fold. > > Big blind (large stack calls with A9s) takes it to a showdown and utg wins > > with pocket 10's....if i played it i would have been way up. > > > > I finished 12th with winning the same money as i would have had finished 19. > > Funny enough i had p10's and lost to pk's. > > > > Who would have played it and who wouldn't and why? > > thx for your time , > > tommyhawk. > > | ||
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| Re: tourney question, tommyhawk, 7. Sep 2002 19:34 | ||
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| yeah i gotta agree with you guys. Like you said Roy... faint hearts don't win tournaments. Although the blinds were 300-600 so i had time to sit out and i think the utg player wasn't that desperate i had to go for it. cause of bad experiences ( like i went out with p10's against kk ) i was too careful. tyvm for your input i am now a little further in becoming a better player. tommyhawk | ||
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| Re: tourney question, Mike Caro, 8. Sep 2002 08:22 | ||
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| on 7. Sep 2002 19:34 tommyhawk wrote: > yeah i gotta agree with you guys. Like you said Roy... faint hearts don't win > tournaments. > Although the blinds were 300-600 so i had time to sit out and i think the utg player > wasn't that desperate i had to go for it. > > cause of bad experiences ( like i went out with p10's against kk ) i was too careful. > > tyvm for your input i am now a little further in becoming a better player. > > tommyhawk Hi, tommyhawk -- True, "faint hearts don't win tournaments" (except sometimes), but that isn't the point. In most cases, if you're interested in making the most money in a proportional payoff event (where 1st place gets a percent of the prize pool, 2nd place gets a lesser percent, and so forth), you should should be trying NOT to win the tournament, for mathematical reasons I've discussed at length in other venues. In fact, the only person who gets penalized is the winner of the tournament, who must win all the money and then give most of it back. Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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| Re: tourney question, tommyhawk, 8. Sep 2002 19:01 | ||
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| i like it. thx mike | ||
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| Re: tourney question, Mike Caro, 8. Sep 2002 08:16 | ||
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| on 7. Sep 2002 06:46 tommyhawk wrote: > hi all, > > i have question about a hand i played (didn't ) yesterday in a tournament which > i then thought was a good thing to do but now i am not so sure and i think i > made a mistake. > > 10$ hold em no limit tourn. with 165 players we are down to the last 19 players > and i am in the money (not much but i am in ) with a stack ranked 16 out of > 19. > I am in last position with only the blinds left to act and i get pocket jacks. > UTG goes all inn with 5.000 i have 6.000. Everybody folds and it comes to me > with the blinds left to act behind me. > The UTG is a very tight player whom i saw win at the showdown only with AK, KK > or AQs. > After one minute of thinking i am to afraid of an A,K or Q hitting the flop...i > fold. > Big blind (large stack calls with A9s) takes it to a showdown and utg wins > with pocket 10's....if i played it i would have been way up. > > I finished 12th with winning the same money as i would have had finished 19. > Funny enough i had p10's and lost to pk's. > > Who would have played it and who wouldn't and why? > thx for your time , > tommyhawk. Hi, tommyhawk -- My answer may seem weird to you, but here it is... If you're interested in making the most money in a proportional payoff tournament (where 1st gets a percentage of the prize pool, 2nd a lesser percentage, and so forth), you were correct in folding against an opponent who would usually have larger ranks than your jacks or a big pair (often bigger than yours). If your opponent had two higher ranks, you were only a slight favorite. If your opponent had a higher pair, you were a huge underdog. If he had a lower pair, well, that weighed heavily in your favor, but not enough to make you a significant favorite overall, all possibilities considered. This is usually too risky a hand to play when you're after the most money in a proportional payoff tournament, where survival is more important than exacting small advantages through risk. But if you're more interested in winning first place and taking home the "trophy," you should play any hand that has even a slight edge (unless you think you'll get much better edges by waiting). Your hand probably had a slight money edge, so if you're after the trophy, play it. Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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