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Server Time: 9/6/2008 10:16:41 AM PACIFIC |
 $60-$120 Hand, Jim Brier, 4. Sep 2002 11:42 | ||
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| This is a 9-handed $60-$120 game at the Bellagio. I am in the cutoff seat with the Ah-Qd. A very loose, aggressive player opens with a raise sitting on my immediate right. I 3-bet because my hand may be best and I want to isolate this guy. The button and the small blind both fold. Unfortunately, Mark Gregorich is sitting in the big blind and he calls. Mark Gregorich is a top Omaha 8 or better player as well as assistant editor of CardPlayer magazine. My impression of Mark is that he is a very solid player. His call of two raises, even from his big blind, greatly concerns me. The loose player calls. There is $580 in the pot and three players. The flop is: Ad-Jd-6d, giving me top pair, excellent kicker with the second nut-flush draw. Mark comes out betting $60. The other player calls. I raise to $120. Both players call. I don't know if Mark is leading with a bigger ace, a big flush draw, or what. The other player probably has a diamond. There is $940 in the pot. The turn is the 6h. Both players check to me. I bet and they both call. There is $1300 in the pot. The river is the Jc, putting two pair on the table. Both players check. What should I do? I will post the results later. | ||
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| Re: $60-$120 Hand, Andrew Wells, 4. Sep 2002 13:18 | ||
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| There don't seem to be any hands except AK which beat you that will fold if you bet. It's unlikely that anyone flopped a flush. The aggressive player would have raised Mark on the flop or checkraised you on the turn, and Mark would have made it three bets on the flop. For similar reasons it's also unlikely anyone flopped a set, except Mark might have JJ if he was concerned about your holding AA. If someone has the Kd they probably don't read you for a flush since it would be out of line to isolate pre-flop with QdTd or even Td9d. If they don't have the Kd then you are representing KdQd, and they have a hand which was drawing to beat a flush. Therefore if you don't bet the river, the best you can do is split the pot with another AQ. If you do bet the river, those hands will probably have to fold. So the question is check and save one big bet from AJ, or bet and get AK and AQ to fold. Clearly you gain more by making the bet than checking. | ||
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| Re: $60-$120 Hand, mewhoelse, 4. Sep 2002 14:05 | ||
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| I would bet. If Mark is as solid of a player as you say then he probably suspected that you were trying to isolate the loose aggresive player. So he does not have to have AK. Also with AK or AJ he would probably make it 3 bets on the flop. I think he would have bet a J on the river (however J is not likely since he did call 3 bets pre-flop out of possition). Now here is the main reason to bet- the other guy. It looks like he would pay you off with a weeker ace. Now if I get raised by Mark, them the brakes he is just a better player then me. | ||
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| Re: $60-$120 Hand, Eric Bush, 4. Sep 2002 20:15 | ||
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| What would the original raiser actually raise with? middle pocket pair? A-9, A-10? If so then I would bet here hoping he'll pay you off. Mark's play concerns me, but he may be the one holding the Kd, and will fold to the bet. I'd bet it since neither of them played back at you on the turn. One of them had the diamond draw (probably), and the other probably had a worse Ace than yours... Of course, there is another possibility, one of them could have Kd and a Jack, in which case you're toast. Bet. Eric B. on 4. Sep 2002 11:42 Jim Brier wrote: > This is a 9-handed $60-$120 game at the Bellagio. I am in the cutoff seat with > the Ah-Qd. A very loose, aggressive player opens with a raise sitting on my > immediate right. I 3-bet because my hand may be best and I want to isolate this > guy. The button and the small blind both fold. Unfortunately, Mark Gregorich is > sitting in the big blind and he calls. Mark Gregorich is a top Omaha 8 or better > player as well as assistant editor of CardPlayer magazine. My impression of Mark > is that he is a very solid player. His call of two raises, even from his big > blind, greatly concerns me. The loose player calls. There is $580 in the pot and > three players. The flop is: Ad-Jd-6d, giving me top pair, excellent kicker with > the second nut-flush draw. Mark comes out betting $60. The other player calls. I > raise to $120. Both players call. I don't know if Mark is leading with a bigger > ace, a big flush draw, or what. The other player probably has a diamond. There > is $940 in the pot. The turn is the 6h. Both players check to me. I bet and they > both call. There is $1300 in the pot. The river is the Jc, putting two pair on > the table. Both players check. What should I do? > > I will post the results later. | ||
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| Re: $60-$120 Hand, timmer, 5. Sep 2002 15:51 | ||
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| I aint no hold em player but I think I would just check and show the hand down.there is little chance I could get a better hand to fold anyway. and the chance I am beat is pretty darn good. -t | ||
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| Re: $60-$120 Hand, Roy Cooke, 5. Sep 2002 08:01 | ||
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| I would bet! If Mark called I would not like it and would expect a split at best. However since the other player is loose-aggressive he would be likely have a weaker ace and pay you off. There is a chance that the loose-aggressive player has 3-Jacks and will check-raise you. I do think this decision is close as Mark may have AK (I think Mark generally would 4-bet with this hand, but he may still have it) or AQ (If Mark has AQ it still devalues your bet as you are taking the risk of being beat with no win) and you may be beat by the loose aggressive player and get check-raised. Roy Cooke on 4. Sep 2002 11:42 Jim Brier wrote: > This is a 9-handed $60-$120 game at the Bellagio. I am in the cutoff seat with > the Ah-Qd. A very loose, aggressive player opens with a raise sitting on my > immediate right. I 3-bet because my hand may be best and I want to isolate this > guy. The button and the small blind both fold. Unfortunately, Mark Gregorich is > sitting in the big blind and he calls. Mark Gregorich is a top Omaha 8 or better > player as well as assistant editor of CardPlayer magazine. My impression of Mark > is that he is a very solid player. His call of two raises, even from his big > blind, greatly concerns me. The loose player calls. There is $580 in the pot and > three players. The flop is: Ad-Jd-6d, giving me top pair, excellent kicker with > the second nut-flush draw. Mark comes out betting $60. The other player calls. I > raise to $120. Both players call. I don't know if Mark is leading with a bigger > ace, a big flush draw, or what. The other player probably has a diamond. There > is $940 in the pot. The turn is the 6h. Both players check to me. I bet and they > both call. There is $1300 in the pot. The river is the Jc, putting two pair on > the table. Both players check. What should I do? > > I will post the results later. | ||
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| Results, Jim Brier, 5. Sep 2002 10:03 | ||
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| I checked because of all the potential stuff out there. Mark mucked, the other guy had A-T with the Td, so my A-Q won. In retrospect, I think a check-raise is very unlikely. A guy with a flopped flush or a full house on the turn would have probably popped me on the turn. A guy with a full house at the river would bet because he has to be fearful that the river will not get bet. So if I bet, the worse that can realistically happen is that I get called. Will I get calls from worse hands? Anyone with a worse ace that includes a diamond will call. I think it has to very close between checking and betting. At our Wednesday poker discussion group here in Vegas, virtually everyone thought checking was automatic. Thanks for the responses. | ||
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| Re: Results, Andrew Wells, 5. Sep 2002 10:52 | ||
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| I thought a checkraise from Mark's position was possible on the river, should he have called your isolation move pre-flop with AJs. I also thought this might be a good time for a checkraise river bluff from either player if you bet. I would reason that you would have shown down a made flush, and were only betting with an ace or full house. | ||
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| Re: Results, timmer, 5. Sep 2002 15:57 | ||
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| Jim, I am glad the LVPDG bunch agreed with your action as well. I know there are some pretty good HE players in that group as well as a bracelet or two. Personally if I hit a big hand in a senario like the one you described I might just lay low and wait for an opprtunity to take someones head off. -timmer` | ||
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