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Server Time: 2/13/2012 8:56:45 AM PACIFIC |
 How do you play this?, Andrew Wells, 31. Aug 2002 14:15 | ||
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| Three hours into today's session finds me stuck fifteen big bets. The game has turned loose-aggressive. I've decided to play until my blind, pick-up and call it a day. I could wait a couple of hours for some premium hands to escape getting snapped off in some major pots, since it's nitwit day at the old card club (the fish have all the money). However, I don't like my game today. I've made two mistakes the last half hour. Trying for a checkraise on the flop that ended up allowing a free card to give a player a draw on the turn that got there, and paying off a raise on the river when I knew I was beat. As sometimes happens when I've decided to leave, I get a premium hand UTG. I raise with Ah Kh, both middle position players call cold. They are the action, and both are on tilt. A decent player on the button who happens to be shortstacked also calls for two bets, while the small blind mucks. The big blind, who knows those players are on tilt (because he commented about this several hands ago), makes it three bets. I decide not to cap it, because if I flop top pair with another big card I would be giving anyone with a gut shot pot odds to call a raise on the flop and a bet on the turn. I smooth call incase I need to raise when the big blind leads out on the flop. Five of us see the flop come 9s 6d 4h for three bets each. The big blind checks, and I'm kind of surprised. I also decide to check and see what happens. It's checked to the button who bets. Everyone calls to the player in front of the button who raises. He has seen that the button had only two and a half bets left before the flop, and reasoned that the button would be going all-in. This the button does, reraising all-in for half a bet more. The big blind decides not to complete the raise, just flat calling one and a half bets. Pot odds are 16:1 (small blind covers the rake and toke). If I make top pair on the turn it can't give anyone an openended straight draw, but half of those cards do make a backdoor flush draw possible. I also think it is now more likely that one of the raisers has a set, in which case I need runner runner hearts that don't include the nine or six. However there is some chance that an ace or king will give me the best hand, it's just not clear cut even with this decent board. Then there's the possibility that one of the players on tilt has a suited ace-rag and paired on the flop, which would also leave me needing to hit twice if an ace falls on the turn. I folded here. Did I let my decision to pick-up and leave after this hand influence my play? Perhaps, but what would you have done at this juncture? | ||
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| Re: How do you play this?, jim grass, 1. Sep 2002 05:21 | ||
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| Against 4 opponents I`m pretty well gone holding strictly two overcards especially with all the action preflop...I might stay for one card looking for the 4th suit and calling the one bet if possible..But as for a K or A you might be two pairing an oppponent at that point,,but i feel your biggest threat is likely a set.. Not having been there to observe tendencies of players leaves one slightly handicapped. Let me state emphatically if you dont feel like your in the game dont play.. I take a tour bus occassionally to play and its a 3 hr drive and one time i felt like i had no focus to be playing well... so i spent the next 4hrs simply playing some video poker and eating lunch and watching the gamblers at the tables blow thier money.. jim on 31. Aug 2002 14:15 Andrew Wells wrote: > Three hours into today's session finds me stuck fifteen big bets. The game has > turned loose-aggressive. I've decided to play until my blind, pick-up and call > it a day. I could wait a couple of hours for some premium hands to escape > getting snapped off in some major pots, since it's nitwit day at the old card > club (the fish have all the money). However, I don't like my game today. I've > made two mistakes the last half hour. Trying for a checkraise on the flop that > ended up allowing a free card to give a player a draw on the turn that got > there, and paying off a raise on the river when I knew I was beat. As sometimes > happens when I've decided to leave, I get a premium hand UTG. > > I raise with Ah Kh, both middle position players call cold. They are the > action, and both are on tilt. A decent player on the button who happens to be > shortstacked also calls for two bets, while the small blind mucks. The big > blind, who knows those players are on tilt (because he commented about this > several hands ago), makes it three bets. I decide not to cap it, because if I > flop top pair with another big card I would be giving anyone with a gut shot pot > odds to call a raise on the flop and a bet on the turn. I smooth call incase I > need to raise when the big blind leads out on the flop. > > Five of us see the flop come 9s 6d 4h for three bets each. The big blind > checks, and I'm kind of surprised. I also decide to check and see what happens. > It's checked to the button who bets. Everyone calls to the player in front of > the button who raises. He has seen that the button had only two and a half bets > left before the flop, and reasoned that the button would be going all-in. This > the button does, reraising all-in for half a bet more. The big blind decides not > to complete the raise, just flat calling one and a half bets. > > Pot odds are 16:1 (small blind covers the rake and toke). If I make top pair on > the turn it can't give anyone an openended straight draw, but half of those > cards do make a backdoor flush draw possible. I also think it is now more likely > that one of the raisers has a set, in which case I need runner runner hearts > that don't include the nine or six. However there is some chance that an ace or > king will give me the best hand, it's just not clear cut even with this decent > board. Then there's the possibility that one of the players on tilt has a suited > ace-rag and paired on the flop, which would also leave me needing to hit twice > if an ace falls on the turn. I folded here. Did I let my decision to pick-up and > leave after this hand influence my play? Perhaps, but what would you have done > at this juncture? | ||
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| Re: How do you play this?, Andrew Wells, 1. Sep 2002 10:40 | ||
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| Most of my money comes from the weekend game. There is truly some horrible play especially pre-flop, but the money swings are greater as well. Even though I prefer a slow grind over catching a few big pots, I know these type of games are really the best for making a good score. I was stuck, but I knew I was a favorite against that line-up. One thing I should have done was check the waiting list to see if the game was going to get tougher before deciding to leave. | ||
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| Rest of the hand, Andrew Wells, 1. Sep 2002 11:10 | ||
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| Both middle position players call. Turn is the 6h, and the big blind checks. Next player bets into the raiser on the flop who calls. The big blind folds. River is the Ks, and both players check. All-in player on the button shows Td 9d. Bettor on the turn shows Tc Ts and takes the pot. I wonder what the other players had, but I don't second guess myself at the table. There's plenty of time to think about the hand on the way home, and I suppose I could have chased, but I still think a fold there is right. That's why I posted this hand, to see if anyone would have taken the turn. | ||
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| Re: Rest of the hand, catsclaw, 2. Sep 2002 17:57 | ||
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| Take the turn. For 1.5 bets, in a pot this big, go for it. Also, the all-in player could even be on bottom pair or even worse. Also, the state of your game at this point, IMO, warrants taking a couple of chances to recoup some chips back, especially with AK suited. | ||
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| Re: Rest of the hand, Andrew Wells, 3. Sep 2002 18:33 | ||
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| It's a tough hand to play out of position when you're on overcards, and the big blind has shown strength pre-flop (likely meaning one or two of my pair cards are gone). As to the state of my game, I didn't like it - not because I was stuck, but because I had made some bad plays on other hands. Mentally I was ready to go, not to try and get even. Chasing to get unstuck is not my style, I'd rather wait for a flop where I'm the favorite and let others chase me. You're point is well taken though, 16:1 pot odds may well have been enough to see the turn but I thought I had to hit both the turn and river to win. Plus I may have ended up splitting it with the big blind if I paired on the turn and it held up. | ||
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| Re: How do you play this?, Roy Cooke, 2. Sep 2002 14:19 | ||
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| Hi Andrew Can the raiser reraise according to the rules in your house? If he can I would definately fold....If he can only call I would call if I felt the raiser was not likely to have more than one pair. The correctness of this call is dependant upon the chances your hand will be good if you hit it! That question is a funtion of your opponents and is a feel isssue. It is a good question and a close call! Roy Cooke 31. Aug 2002 14:15 Andrew Wells wrote: > Three hours into today's session finds me stuck fifteen big bets. The game has > turned loose-aggressive. I've decided to play until my blind, pick-up and call > it a day. I could wait a couple of hours for some premium hands to escape > getting snapped off in some major pots, since it's nitwit day at the old card > club (the fish have all the money). However, I don't like my game today. I've > made two mistakes the last half hour. Trying for a checkraise on the flop that > ended up allowing a free card to give a player a draw on the turn that got > there, and paying off a raise on the river when I knew I was beat. As sometimes > happens when I've decided to leave, I get a premium hand UTG. > > I raise with Ah Kh, both middle position players call cold. They are the > action, and both are on tilt. A decent player on the button who happens to be > shortstacked also calls for two bets, while the small blind mucks. The big > blind, who knows those players are on tilt (because he commented about this > several hands ago), makes it three bets. I decide not to cap it, because if I > flop top pair with another big card I would be giving anyone with a gut shot pot > odds to call a raise on the flop and a bet on the turn. I smooth call incase I > need to raise when the big blind leads out on the flop. > > Five of us see the flop come 9s 6d 4h for three bets each. The big blind > checks, and I'm kind of surprised. I also decide to check and see what happens. > It's checked to the button who bets. Everyone calls to the player in front of > the button who raises. He has seen that the button had only two and a half bets > left before the flop, and reasoned that the button would be going all-in. This > the button does, reraising all-in for half a bet more. The big blind decides not > to complete the raise, just flat calling one and a half bets. > > Pot odds are 16:1 (small blind covers the rake and toke). If I make top pair on > the turn it can't give anyone an openended straight draw, but half of those > cards do make a backdoor flush draw possible. I also think it is now more likely > that one of the raisers has a set, in which case I need runner runner hearts > that don't include the nine or six. However there is some chance that an ace or > king will give me the best hand, it's just not clear cut even with this decent > board. Then there's the possibility that one of the players on tilt has a suited > ace-rag and paired on the flop, which would also leave me needing to hit twice > if an ace falls on the turn. I folded here. Did I let my decision to pick-up and > leave after this hand influence my play? Perhaps, but what would you have done > at this juncture? | ||
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| Re: How do you play this?, Andrew Wells, 3. Sep 2002 18:08 | ||
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| The options would be to call the half bet, complete it, or raise one small bet. I thought the checkraise on the flop was only intended to get the player on the button all-in. There would be no reason for the button to just call and wait until the turn. I know how the button plays, and he would not just be betting on the flop with overcards. I thought it was likely that the button had top set (since he would have made it three bets before the flop with pocket tens or better), and that if I did catch top pair I would be playing only for the side pot. I didn't like making an initial check-call on the flop, and I was expecting a bet from the big blind, so maybe I got a little lost in the hand. Since I had decided to leave, the deep checkraise plus the extra half bet was enough to get me off the hand. | ||
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