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3 mistakes win a big pot, Mark, 27. Aug 2002 06:38
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Here is a hand I played recently, although I won a very large pot, I think I made two mistakes.

I call on the button with Ah,2s offsuit when 6 players in front of me call, and the blinds came in too. The flop is 2d, 5h, 2h ,absolutely beautiful.

EP bets, MP raises (this guy has bet out flush draws before/ I assume this time a flush draw with overcards), I call. At the time calling seemed like a great slow play, now its obviously mistake #1.

Turn card is Kh. EP checks, MP bets, I raise (mistake #2, I should have called.) figuring a re-raise means he hit his flush, a call means he has Ks. EP folds and MP re-raises. I figure MP for a flush. At this point the pot is $30 in a 1-2 game, and with a nut flush draw, 1 out for a 4 of-a-kind, and 3 outs for a boat, I call.

With the pot size and my number of outs I still think this call was good.

The river is an ace making my 2s full and I get to four-bet. I think it ended up a $56 pot in a $1-2 game.

I (think I) should have raised the flop to get out any other draws, MP would have called. When the turn came Kh I should have called a single bet from MP. I he checked, I would have bet and been raised. Its hard to say now if i would have called, I rarely call a check raise on the turn without the nuts, but with a good size pot and my number of outs, I may have. Then the river is a no-brainer.

What does everyone think?

A third mistake, maybe the biggest one, was putting MP on a hand then ignoring my original prediction when I didn't like it. I figured MP for a heart flush draw on the flop, so why did raise him on the turn?

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Re: 3 mistakes win a big pot, Roy Cooke, 27. Aug 2002 07:33
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on 27. Aug 2002 06:38 Mark wrote:
> Here is a hand I played recently, although I won a very large pot, I think I
> made two mistakes.
>
> I call on the button with Ah,2s offsuit when 6 players in front of me call, and
> the blinds came in too. The flop is 2d, 5h, 2h ,absolutely beautiful.
>
> EP bets, MP raises (this guy has bet out flush draws before/ I assume this time
> a flush draw with overcards), I call. At the time calling seemed like a great
> slow play, now its obviously mistake #1.
>
> Turn card is Kh. EP checks, MP bets, I raise (mistake #2, I should have
> called.) figuring a re-raise means he hit his flush, a call means he has Ks. EP
> folds and MP re-raises. I figure MP for a flush. At this point the pot is $30
> in a 1-2 game, and with a nut flush draw, 1 out for a 4 of-a-kind, and 3 outs
> for a boat, I call.
>
> With the pot size and my number of outs I still think this call was good.
>
> The river is an ace making my 2s full and I get to four-bet. I think it ended
> up a $56 pot in a $1-2 game.
>
> I (think I) should have raised the flop to get out any other draws, MP would
> have called. When the turn came Kh I should have called a single bet from MP.
> I he checked, I would have bet and been raised. Its hard to say now if i would
> have called, I rarely call a check raise on the turn without the nuts, but with
> a good size pot and my number of outs, I may have. Then the river is a
> no-brainer.
>
> What does everyone think?
>
> A third mistake, maybe the biggest one, was putting MP on a hand then ignoring
> my original prediction when I didn't like it. I figured MP for a heart flush
> draw on the flop, so why did raise him on the turn?

Hi Mark

I would not have played the hand in the first place. Ax offsuit is not a hand to take against any sort of a field.

Since there were a lot of bets in the pot on the flop I would have raissed. When making these decisions, I try to pread my opponents hand and figure out if he would be correct in calling. If he is correct in calling I would raise.

I seldom 100% put a player on a hand.....but instead a range of hands. If you put the player on the flush indubitably...then raising him was a big mistake. If he may have had a different hand...the raise may have been correct......particually if your opponent is intimidated by you and will not reraise (obviously this was not the case in this instance) and you can have option of checking the river if you don't improve.

I agree with you that your play of hands needs some work......Don't fret and work on it...you are on the right track thinking through the situation such as you did! Good Luck and keep working hard!

Roy Cooke
>
>
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Re: 3 mistakes win a big pot, Mike Caro, 27. Aug 2002 09:08
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on 27. Aug 2002 06:38 Mark wrote:
> Here is a hand I played recently, although I won a very large pot, I think I
> made two mistakes.
>
> I call on the button with Ah,2s offsuit when 6 players in front of me call, and
> the blinds came in too. The flop is 2d, 5h, 2h ,absolutely beautiful.
>
> EP bets, MP raises (this guy has bet out flush draws before/ I assume this time
> a flush draw with overcards), I call. At the time calling seemed like a great
> slow play, now its obviously mistake #1.
>
> Turn card is Kh. EP checks, MP bets, I raise (mistake #2, I should have
> called.) figuring a re-raise means he hit his flush, a call means he has Ks. EP
> folds and MP re-raises. I figure MP for a flush. At this point the pot is $30
> in a 1-2 game, and with a nut flush draw, 1 out for a 4 of-a-kind, and 3 outs
> for a boat, I call.
>
> With the pot size and my number of outs I still think this call was good.
>
> The river is an ace making my 2s full and I get to four-bet. I think it ended
> up a $56 pot in a $1-2 game.
>
> I (think I) should have raised the flop to get out any other draws, MP would
> have called. When the turn came Kh I should have called a single bet from MP.
> I he checked, I would have bet and been raised. Its hard to say now if i would
> have called, I rarely call a check raise on the turn without the nuts, but with
> a good size pot and my number of outs, I may have. Then the river is a
> no-brainer.
>
> What does everyone think?
>
> A third mistake, maybe the biggest one, was putting MP on a hand then ignoring
> my original prediction when I didn't like it. I figured MP for a heart flush
> draw on the flop, so why did raise him on the turn?

Hi, Mark --

Interesting post!

Your original call was not even close to long-range profitable. You should routinely fold A-2. Usually, more opponents make that hand worse, not better.

Your "second mistake" wasn't necessarily a mistake at all. There is nothing wrong with just calling to trap, as an option. Usually you should raise, but I would think that calling one-third of the time in that situation my keep your game from being too transparent. So, I won't second guess you there.

Finally, you had as many as 10 possible "outs" on the final card. It depended on whether pairing a board card helped you win with deuces full or helped an opponent make a larger full house. Maybe that's what you meant by saying "3 outs" -- you meant three cards for each of those outs (three fives, three aces, and three kings) and one for making four deuces. Then there was the ace-high flush draw. In any case, you're right that the pot odds more than justified the call -- you could have justified that with just the ace of hearts alone!

Thanks for posting an interesting hand.

Straight Flushes,
Mike Caro
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Re: 3 mistakes win a big pot, Eric Bush, 28. Aug 2002 06:15
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I agree with Roy and Mike, I would not have played the hand pre-flop, however, once you hit the trip deuces I would have played it a bit differently. One thing I always think about is something I think I read in one of Caro's books, and that is it is usually best (most profitable) to do what seems most obvious (or something like that). If you believe you have the best hand, then raise it up, make 'em pay to draw out on you (they nearly always try, no matter how loong the odds are).

In other words, when you flopped the best had, three two's, I would have raised and made all the flush draws pay to get there. Even if the original bettor didn't have the flush draw someone probably did. The only way I wouldn't have raised on the flop is if I was nearly 100% sure the original bettor would bet the turn for me if the heart didn't come, that way you could trap everyone for two BIG bets on the turn card.

Once the flush is now possible, after the turn card, and someone bets into you, I would say you have to respect the bet, and just call. Pray like heck, and hope the board pairs, or better yet, an Ace comes.
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