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Server Time: 12/3/2008 10:34:49 PM PACIFIC |
 beating low limits, Mark, 6. Aug 2002 06:24 | ||
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| I'm just waking up from playing 4-8, 5-10 hold'em all weekend and a down $300. I've only played in casinos 8 times now, but feel that i play fairly strong poker. I turned a profit the previous 2 times I played. I read the books and use the tight (or tighter) starting requirements that Caro, Krieger, and others suggest and fit or fold the flop. And I can usually read about half the people at the table. I know i still make bad plays: a bad call on the turn or river or not betting the flop to define other players hands. Back to this weekend. I thought I would try my luck late at night on a long weekend. I though many of the players would be on long sessions and i could catch them when they are tired and loose. Boy, was I right. The pots in the 5-10 game were almost constantly + $100, and the 4-8 game wasn't too far behind. ( the 5-10 game was at a new casino card room). 8 people calling a pre-flop raise was not uncommon. The problem with this was, 7 bad players in a pot would cancel out my pot odds. My pocket aces, kings and queens all got cracked it they didn't improve. A 6-4 offsuit, out of early position, making a full-house to win a $200 pot was no surprise. Good players would lay down two pair or trips on the river if there were 3 suited or connecting cards; and were right to. The 5-10 game was so loose, a normally break even player raised with 7-2 clubs out of early position! and he won the hand! When it got late, the players had to move tables to keep the games going, the games became short handed (6 or 7 players), and I started to win. In fact I recovered most of my losses and had a great table image (for only playing great hands, but wasn't ). But when our table became full again, my loosing started all over again. No suited, connected, paired, AXo, KXo, etc. would fold pre-flop or on the flop, no matter how much raising. Of all the tables I was on, only one person walked away an obvious winner, he left up about $200. Everyone else just moved their money around. It didn't go on tilt during all of this but I am a little frustrated now. I've spent alot of time studying and thinking about poker, and logged alot of hours on-line (generally extremely loose) experimenting with starting hands. So my obvious question is, how do I beat a loose low limit table? Do I use even tighter starting requirements, forget about pairs and only play suited connectors, show up in the morning and play when everyone else is a little more conservative? PLEASE HELP! Mark | ||
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| Re: beating low limits, Easy E, 6. Aug 2002 08:46 | ||
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| Mark If you are not comfortable with a lot of big swings, don't play in this game. That being said, I'm finding that a policy of "loosen a little, dump a lot" works well for these types of games. a) Drawing hands are almost better than the big hands... by drawing, I mean flushes and to some extent straights and little pairs (that become sets) Flushes headed by a T or higher usually do okay- you can often call one raise and get away with it if you flop well. Don't do much of this from early position, however. Lower flushes are risky, but if you catch a pair with your draw, they can be profitable. b) big pairs will make more money than usual, but will also lose more often as well. You have to be able to dump these hands when the flop is somewhat coordinated... even though it hurts (and tho sometimes you'll find out you blew it). When people don't respect raises and don't fear chasing runner-runner, your big pairs ain't so big anymore. c) AKoff is a drawing hand, and a "weak" one at that- it's weak, in that it will often get you into more trouble than you would get from other hands. Be VERY careful with it, be willing to dump it, especially when facing betting pressure from the more-sober manaics. d) Don't go crazy betting unless you have a very strong hand/draw. People will call your strong hands, often for 2 bets at a time, once you make it- no disguise needed. .... and flopping WELL means exactly that- top pair with anything but top kicker often gets you into a big hole..... while 2 small pair can often win some decent, if very risky, money. Here's an example recently that I had- two maniacs (one aggressive, one crazy) are two seats to my right. Most of the table would call 2 raises as a result, preflop, with decent hands. I'm in early position, raise with KJs- I don't care if most people call or go out. Flop is K96 with one spade. BB aggress bets, I raise to shut out the field and isolate. one person calls, BB reraises (I'm thinking a possible two pair here), I'm the only caller. Turn brings the 6s. However, I only call the BB bet with my second-flush and Kings-over, big house draw. River is a rainbow, I called the bet (should have dumped, but there was a chance he had overplayed his hand). BB had 96off. While I could have saved 1 bet at the end, I DEFINATELY saved at least 2 bets prior to that. | ||
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| Re: beating low limits, Easy E, 6. Aug 2002 08:51 | ||
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| (sorry, sent too early) .... The important point was, I didn't let it bother me. In fact, I was glad to see him playing those kinds of hands. I continued to play aggressively, but released if I didn't catch strongly, and watched the maniacs bleed off a lot of their chips over time. I left with a 40% profit of my original buy in, if I remember correctly, though I swung between being up 2 buyins and down 2 1/2 through the session. Accept that it's gonna be crazy, plan your post-flop hands accordingly, avoid early position when possible.... and good fortune to you. | ||
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| Re: beating low limits, Roy Cooke, 7. Aug 2002 09:33 | ||
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| on 6. Aug 2002 06:24 Mark wrote: > I'm just waking up from playing 4-8, 5-10 hold'em all weekend and a down $300. > I've only played in casinos 8 times now, but feel that i play fairly strong > poker. I turned a profit the previous 2 times I played. I read the books and > use the tight (or tighter) starting requirements that Caro, Krieger, and others > suggest and fit or fold the flop. And I can usually read about half the people > at the table. > > I know i still make bad plays: a bad call on the turn or river or not betting > the flop to define other players hands. > > Back to this weekend. I thought I would try my luck late at night on a long > weekend. I though many of the players would be on long sessions and i could > catch them when they are tired and loose. Boy, was I right. The pots in the > 5-10 game were almost constantly + $100, and the 4-8 game wasn't too far behind. > ( the 5-10 game was at a new casino card room). 8 people calling a pre-flop > raise was not uncommon. > > The problem with this was, 7 bad players in a pot would cancel out my pot odds. > My pocket aces, kings and queens all got cracked it they didn't improve. A 6-4 > offsuit, out of early position, making a full-house to win a $200 pot was no > surprise. Good players would lay down two pair or trips on the river if there > were 3 suited or connecting cards; and were right to. The 5-10 game was so > loose, a normally break even player raised with 7-2 clubs out of early position! > and he won the hand! > > When it got late, the players had to move tables to keep the games going, the > games became short handed (6 or 7 players), and I started to win. In fact I > recovered most of my losses and had a great table image (for only playing great > hands, but wasn't ). > > But when our table became full again, my loosing started all over again. No > suited, connected, paired, AXo, KXo, etc. would fold pre-flop or on the flop, no > matter how much raising. > > Of all the tables I was on, only one person walked away an obvious winner, he > left up about $200. Everyone else just moved their money around. > > It didn't go on tilt during all of this but I am a little frustrated now. I've > spent alot of time studying and thinking about poker, and logged alot of hours > on-line (generally extremely loose) experimenting with starting hands. > > So my obvious question is, how do I beat a loose low limit table? Do I use > even tighter starting requirements, forget about pairs and only play suited > connectors, show up in the morning and play when everyone else is a little more > conservative? > > PLEASE HELP! > > Mark Hi Mark If the game is loose aggressive....keep your hand slection very tight and only play premium hands. The action you will get on those premium hands will be great...you will have large swings and get many of those hands beat...but, DONT TILT! If the game is passive loose....play many more marginal hands (suited hands and small pairs)...the value of those hands will increase as the payoffs you will recieve on on those hands will be larger. Cut down on your bluffs! Roy Cooke > | ||
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