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Server Time: 8/30/2008 2:55:21 AM PACIFIC |
 What irritates me about old-style "Vegas pros", Mike Caro, 4. Aug 2002 01:04 | ||
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| Things may be changing in Las Vegas. But, in the past, there was a noticeable difference between the demeanor of the typical carefree Los Angels poker pro and the typical down-to-business Las Vegas poker pro. My impression has been that too many of the Las Vegas players pollute other games around the country. I know that's not a nice thing to say, and there are lots of fun-and-friendly poker pros in Vegas, too. But I'm talking in generalities I believe that the ONLY games many of these Vegas pros have been equipped to beat badly are the nightmare tables of their own creation. This type of game (the ones I've personally played in while visiting Las Vegas from Los Angeles) is scary to me. I get angry when I sit in those games, because nobody is even pretending to throw off money, and weak players who could contribute greatly to the poker economy are scared into either quitting or playing better. This type of of old-fashioned "Vegas pro" can be poison to a casino. In Los Angeles, a Vegas "pro" will often ruin a game, by sitting, bidding his time, chomping seriously on a toothpick, and otherwise letting it be known that it's a serious game for serious money. Yes, they might beat the game. But they will ruin it in the process. A world-class player, by my definition, wouldn't do that. Is my impression wrong? Is it based on past behavior that is different today? Or is it still valid? What do you think? Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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| Re: What irritates me about old-style "Vegas pros", Roy Cooke, 4. Aug 2002 09:44 | ||
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| on 4. Aug 2002 01:04 Mike Caro wrote: > Things may be changing in Las Vegas. But, in the past, there was a noticeable > difference between the demeanor of the typical carefree Los Angels poker pro and > the typical down-to-business Las Vegas poker pro. > > My impression has been that too many of the Las Vegas players pollute other > games around the country. I know that's not a nice thing to say, and there are > lots of fun-and-friendly poker pros in Vegas, too. But I'm talking in > generalities > > I believe that the ONLY games many of these Vegas pros have been equipped to > beat badly are the nightmare tables of their own creation. > > This type of game (the ones I've personally played in while visiting Las Vegas > from Los Angeles) is scary to me. I get angry when I sit in those games, because > nobody is even pretending to throw off money, and weak players who could > contribute greatly to the poker economy are scared into either quitting or > playing better. This type of of old-fashioned "Vegas pro" can be poison to a > casino. > > In Los Angeles, a Vegas "pro" will often ruin a game, by sitting, bidding his > time, chomping seriously on a toothpick, and otherwise letting it be known that > it's a serious game for serious money. > > Yes, they might beat the game. But they will ruin it in the process. A > world-class player, by my definition, wouldn't do that. > > Is my impression wrong? Is it based on past behavior that is different today? > Or is it still valid? What do you think? > > Straight Flushes, > Mike Caro Wow, I get just the opposite impression. I go to LA and the players are calling each other M-Fers, throwing cards on the floor, berating dealers ect. The players are MUCH more friendly and respectful of each other in Las Vegas...It ain't even close! I don't know when the last time you played here Mike...but NOT! We busted all the nits and sent them to LA where players will give them action no matter what...It is the only way they can survive! Las Vegas poker is aggressive. Roy Cooke | ||
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| Re: What irritates me about old-style "Vegas pros", Mike Caro, 4. Aug 2002 12:31 | ||
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| on 4. Aug 2002 09:44 Roy Cooke wrote: > Wow, I get just the opposite impression. I go to LA and the players are calling each > other M-Fers, throwing cards on the floor, berating dealers ect. The players are MUCH > more friendly and respectful of each other in Las Vegas...It ain't even close! > > I don't know when the last time you played here Mike...but NOT! We busted all the > nits and sent them to LA where players will give them action no matter what...It is > the only way they can survive! Las Vegas poker is aggressive. > > Roy Cooke Hi, Roy -- You better do something to bring down that fever. :-) The amount of laughter and playfullness, the number of players per pot, the number of players arriving at the showdown, the "credit" (as opposed to criticism) you get for winning with 9-2 offsuit, and many other "juicy game" factors are much greater in Los Angeles. I was startled by your assertion that Vegas games had changed so greatly, so I asked. They haven't. Your game may be the exception, though. Actually, I think Vegas games are more appealing to a certain type of player who is more interested in having reduced fluctuation and earning a more stable income. The extra profit from super-wild games also means you can go broke pursuing it. And nothing beats Vegas for the extra excitement that permeates the whole city. So, where to play is definitely an unresolvable, personal choice decision. Many pros move back and forth. Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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| Re: What irritates me about old-style "Vegas pros", Roy Cooke, 4. Aug 2002 14:47 | ||
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| on 4. Aug 2002 12:31 Mike Caro wrote: > on 4. Aug 2002 09:44 Roy Cooke wrote: > > Wow, I get just the opposite impression. I go to LA and the players are calling each > > other M-Fers, throwing cards on the floor, berating dealers ect. The players are MUCH > > > more friendly and respectful of each other in Las Vegas...It ain't even close! > > > > I don't know when the last time you played here Mike...but NOT! We busted all the > > nits and sent them to LA where players will give them action no matter what...It is > > the only way they can survive! Las Vegas poker is aggressive. > > > > Roy Cooke > > Hi, Roy -- > > You better do something to bring down that fever. :-) > > The amount of laughter and playfullness, the number of players per pot, the number of > players arriving at the showdown, the "credit" (as opposed to criticism) you get for > winning with 9-2 offsuit, and many other "juicy game" factors are much greater in Los > Angeles. > > I was startled by your assertion that Vegas games had changed so greatly, so I asked. > They haven't. Your game may be the exception, though. Actually, I think Vegas games are > more appealing to a certain type of player who is more interested in having reduced > fluctuation and earning a more stable income. The extra profit from super-wild games also > means you can go broke pursuing it. > > And nothing beats Vegas for the extra excitement that permeates the whole city. So, where > to play is definitely an unresolvable, personal choice decision. Many pros move back and > forth. > > Straight Flushes, > Mike Caro Boy, you must play in different games than I. Or you are back to smoking that stuff when you play in California. Are you the only one laughing and happy? LOL The 40-80's I played in Cal were the meanest, badest, most miserable group of people I have ever played with ( and I have been to some scuzzie joints). The higher games in Vegas can get pretty bad at times too. However, the casinos here have tougher enforcement than what I have seen in California. The 30-60 games here are pretty sociable games. I am not saying all of them are, but in comparing what I have seen here to California.........We are much friendlier people here in Vegas. Roy Cooke | ||
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| Re: What irritates me about old-style "Vegas pros", Mike Caro, 4. Aug 2002 16:35 | ||
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| on 4. Aug 2002 14:47 Roy Cooke wrote (in part): >We are much friendlier people here in Vegas. > > Roy Cooke Hi, Roy -- Glad to hear it. Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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| Re: What irritates me about old-style "Vegas pros", Phat Mack, 4. Aug 2002 16:57 | ||
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| I agree with your assessment of many of the LV players and games. I try to remain on cordial terms with them. Some of the LV rocks travel to big tournaments, and chase fish into games and formats that are over their heads. It's nice to know who they are so as to encourage them. | ||
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| Re: What irritates me about old-style "Vegas pros", Eric Bush, 5. Aug 2002 05:54 | ||
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| No offense intended to anyone group, but I've played both lo and mid limit hold em in LA and LV. I found the games in LV to be tighter, but also found the people in LV to be more sociable (in a good way). My short stay in LA was spent at the Bike, and I saw card throwing, cussing, yelling at the dealers, and an overall bad attitude from many players. I don't feel the looser action made up for the bad attitudes of some of the players. I was actually tired of playing under those conditions by the end of the week. For what it's worth , Eric. on 4. Aug 2002 16:57 Phat Mack wrote: > I agree with your assessment of many of the LV players and games. I try to remain on > cordial terms with them. Some of the LV rocks travel to big tournaments, and chase > fish into games and formats that are over their heads. It's nice to know who they are > so as to encourage them. | ||
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| Re: What irritates me about old-style "Vegas pros", Roy Cooke, 5. Aug 2002 06:57 | ||
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| on 5. Aug 2002 05:54 Eric Bush wrote: > No offense intended to anyone group, but I've played both lo and mid limit hold em in LA > and LV. I found the games in LV to be tighter, but also found the people in LV to be more > sociable (in a good way). My short stay in LA was spent at the Bike, and I saw card > throwing, cussing, yelling at the dealers, and an overall bad attitude from many players. > > > I don't feel the looser action made up for the bad attitudes of some of the players. I > was actually tired of playing under those conditions by the end of the week. > > For what it's worth , Eric. I agree with all of this. I do think the games overall are tighter in LV. However, the rake is MUCH lower, the cost of living is MUCH lower and if you play your hands well I think you can make just as much per hour in LV as in LA. In LA many plays that are profiatable in LV are almost useless due to the texture of the games. This cuts down the ability to "outplay" opponents in LA. In such games the difference in play knowledge has a much smaller effect on players expectation than in games which have smaller pots and the propensity to outplay opponents. Roy Cooke > > on 4. Aug 2002 16:57 Phat Mack wrote: > > I agree with your assessment of many of the LV players and games. I try to remain on > > cordial terms with them. Some of the LV rocks travel to big tournaments, and chase > > fish into games and formats that are over their heads. It's nice to know who they are > > > so as to encourage them. | ||
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| Re: What irritates me about old-style "Vegas pros", Eric Bush, 5. Aug 2002 08:42 | ||
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| on 5. Aug 2002 06:57 Roy Cooke wrote: > on 5. Aug 2002 05:54 Eric Bush wrote: > > No offense intended to anyone group, but I've played both lo and mid limit hold em in LA > > and LV. I found the games in LV to be tighter, but also found the people in LV to be more > > > sociable (in a good way). My short stay in LA was spent at the Bike, and I saw card > > throwing, cussing, yelling at the dealers, and an overall bad attitude from many players. > > > > > > > I don't feel the looser action made up for the bad attitudes of some of the players. I > > was actually tired of playing under those conditions by the end of the week. > > > > For what it's worth , Eric. > > I agree with all of this. I do think the games overall are tighter in LV. However, the rake is > MUCH lower, the cost of living is MUCH lower and if you play your hands well I think you can > make just as much per hour in LV as in LA. > > In LA many plays that are profiatable in LV are almost useless due to the texture of the > games. This cuts down the ability to "outplay" opponents in LA. In such games the difference in > play knowledge has a much smaller effect on players expectation than in games which have > smaller pots and the propensity to outplay opponents. > > Roy Cooke And to add to that: To me, that's the enjoyment of poker, outplaying an opponent. There are many more moves and plays available to a table with an overall tighter image. Eric. > > > > on 4. Aug 2002 16:57 Phat Mack wrote: > > > I agree with your assessment of many of the LV players and games. I try to remain on > > > cordial terms with them. Some of the LV rocks travel to big tournaments, and chase > > > fish into games and formats that are over their heads. It's nice to know who they are > > > > > so as to encourage them. | ||
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