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Server Time: 8/30/2008 1:58:21 AM PACIFIC |
 Really Low Limit, mickblueeyes, 2. Aug 2002 10:29 | ||
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| Just to introduce myselt and tell a little about my game. My name is Brent and I play .05-.25 spread limit in a home game. It started just for fun back in November and I took to it like a fish to water. I love poker. I am 24 and a Microbiology major at the University of Tennessee. I have read Caro's Fundamental secrets, body language and have all his videos. I have also read Roy West's 7 card stud and Slanksky's Theory of Poker. Any other good book recommendations will be appreciated. Even though my game is very low limit, most of the players take it somewhat seriously and I usually garnish about 10-20 bucks a night (which is a heck of a lot for nickel/quarter poker). I do have trouble reading a few players and would love some advice. One player is a retired surgeon who has played cards all his life. I find it hard to spot tells on him because he has a glass eye. I know which is the good eye, but I can't see where he is looking often enough. He is a pretty formidable player skill-wise. He always seems to get killer hands that are hidden very well and he slowplays like mad. For instance, I will make Kings up in stud and he will whip out buried A's up. He never bets and always gets the surprise value out of his hands. I never seem to be able to put him on a hand, with a few exceptions. Any advice for how to approach him or how to read him? The other problemed player is a 20-something engineering student, who plays very conservatively, but bluffs moderately. Sometimes he will exhibit classic tells like staring me down, but other times, he exhibits no tells whatsoever. His conservative personality makes it difficult to put him on a hand. Thanks for any advice, Mick | ||
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| Re: Really Low Limit, jim grass, 2. Aug 2002 13:04 | ||
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| be patient dont expect to much to soon...The game is quite complex and some take longer then others to grasp the art.. Get mikes 12 days to holdem success and follow it faithfully and perhaps lou kriegers book or Lee Jones .. jim on 2. Aug 2002 10:29 mickblueeyes wrote: > Just to introduce myselt and tell a little about my game. My name is Brent and I > play .05-.25 spread limit in a home game. It started just for fun back in > November and I took to it like a fish to water. I love poker. I am 24 and a > Microbiology major at the University of Tennessee. > > I have read Caro's Fundamental secrets, body language and have all his videos. > I have also read Roy West's 7 card stud and Slanksky's Theory of Poker. Any > other good book recommendations will be appreciated. > > Even though my game is very low limit, most of the players take it somewhat > seriously and I usually garnish about 10-20 bucks a night (which is a heck of a > lot for nickel/quarter poker). > > I do have trouble reading a few players and would love some advice. One player > is a retired surgeon who has played cards all his life. I find it hard to spot > tells on him because he has a glass eye. I know which is the good eye, but I > can't see where he is looking often enough. He is a pretty formidable player > skill-wise. He always seems to get killer hands that are hidden very well and he > slowplays like mad. For instance, I will make Kings up in stud and he will whip > out buried A's up. He never bets and always gets the surprise value out of his > hands. I never seem to be able to put him on a hand, with a few exceptions. Any > advice for how to approach him or how to read him? > > The other problemed player is a 20-something engineering student, who plays > very conservatively, but bluffs moderately. Sometimes he will exhibit classic > tells like staring me down, but other times, he exhibits no tells whatsoever. > His conservative personality makes it difficult to put him on a hand. > > Thanks for any advice, > > Mick | ||
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| Re: Really Low Limit, Sam, 3. Aug 2002 10:02 | ||
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| on 2. Aug 2002 10:29 mickblueeyes wrote: > I do have trouble reading a few players and would love some advice. >One player is a retired surgeon who has played cards all his life. Hi Mick, I have been playing Poker since I was 13-14 yrs old for money. I am 55 now. I just wanted to comment on your above observation. The best tool I ever had in learning poker was my acting abilities. I only acted in high school in a few plays but the experience helped me later. How do I act? I do my best to act like someone who isn't playing poker. I don't smile I don't frown and I don't talk much. I have been praticing that "Poker face" of mine since day one. Just like me that surgeon has been praticing his "Poker face" too. I am going out on a limb here and stating my opinion about tells. (Mike may not like this one) Not giving tells is every bit as important to your game as spotting someone elses. I used to think I was a really good poker player. I based that on the fact that I have always been able to walk away from most games a winner and when I wasn't winning I walked away a loser (Preferably sooner than later). Then I started to play on the Internet and learned a new game (Holdem') which I had never played. It is going on two years now and I am still a loser online. I atribute that to having lost the most important tool I ever had. Nobody was ever very sucessful at putting me on a hand, more than once in awhile because I change it as needed. I suppose this sounds like a brag and I guess it is. But you asked for advice...well take an acting class or two while your in college. It can't hurt. Sam P.S. I never had one but a video camera ought to be a god send for watching to see what your tells are. | ||
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| Re: Really Low Limit, mickblueeyes, 5. Aug 2002 11:12 | ||
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| Thanks for the advice! | ||
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| Re: Really Low Limit, maymay, 5. Aug 2002 19:57 | ||
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| >Not giving tells is every bit as important to your game as spotting someone elses. > I used to think I was a really good poker player. I based that on the fact that I > have always been able to walk away from most games a winner and when I wasn't winning > I walked away a loser (Preferably sooner than later). Then I started to play on the > Internet and learned a new game (Holdem') which I had never played. It is going on > two years now and I am still a loser online. > I atribute that to having lost the most important tool I ever had. Nobody was ever > very sucessful at putting me on a hand, more than once in awhile because I change it > as needed. Sam, though I agree that not giving tells is important, there is more than one way to read a player than just watching his mannerisms. Most of the time, tells are only additional hints that help me make marginal decisions. When I put a player on a hand, it's usually based upon betting patterns far more often than it is based on a tell. Though a tell may eliminate or narrow certain possible holdings, my decisions have to be solidly in the black in order to make money. (An exception, of course, is Pot-Limit and No-Limit poker where reading an opponent's tell can become more important.) -maymay | ||
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| Re: Really Low Limit, Sam, 6. Aug 2002 07:08 | ||
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| I agree May, thats why one has to keep varying ones play. (Then there's giving false tells...another whole subject ;o) on 5. Aug 2002 19:57 maymay wrote: > Sam, > though I agree that not giving tells is important, there is more than one >way to read a player than just watching his mannerisms. > Most of the time, tells are only additional hints that help me make >marginal decisions. When I put a player on a hand, it's usually based >upon betting patterns far more often than it is based on a tell. Though a tell may eliminate or narrow certain possible holdings, my decisions have to be solidly in the black in order to make money. (An exception, of course, is Pot-Limit and No-Limit poker where reading an opponent's tell >can become more important.) > > -maymay | ||
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| Re: Really Low Limit, maymay, 5. Aug 2002 20:05 | ||
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| on 2. Aug 2002 10:29 mickblueeyes wrote: > Just to introduce myselt and tell a little about my game. My name is Brent and I > play .05-.25 spread limit in a home game. It started just for fun back in > November and I took to it like a fish to water. I love poker. I am 24 and a > Microbiology major at the University of Tennessee. > > I have read Caro's Fundamental secrets, body language and have all his videos. > I have also read Roy West's 7 card stud and Slanksky's Theory of Poker. Any > other good book recommendations will be appreciated. Mick, a book you may find very helpful is Bob Ciaffone's "Improve Your Poker." It talks about Hold'em, Omaha, Stuf, High-Low Split, Big-Bet Poker, and other essays on general poker concepts. Also a section on Tournaments, and Reading Opponents--we've been talking about that. I just finished Hold'em Excellence by Lou Krieger, and am now reading More Hold'em Excellence. :) There's a reason I'm reading his second book. Need I say more? -maymay | ||
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| Re: Really Low Limit, mickblueeyes, 5. Aug 2002 20:14 | ||
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| Cool! I will get it next! | ||
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| Re: Really Low Limit, Michael Wiesenberg, 16. Aug 2002 00:31 | ||
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| on 2. Aug 2002 10:29 mickblueeyes wrote: > I do have trouble reading a few players and would love some advice. One player > is a retired surgeon who has played cards all his life. I find it hard to spot > tells on him because he has a glass eye. I know which is the good eye, but I > can't see where he is looking often enough. He is a pretty formidable player > skill-wise. He always seems to get killer hands that are hidden very well and he > slowplays like mad. For instance, I will make Kings up in stud and he will whip > out buried A's up. He never bets and always gets the surprise value out of his > hands. I never seem to be able to put him on a hand, with a few exceptions. Any > advice for how to approach him or how to read him? "Slow-playing like mad" and never betting are not part of a winning player's descriptions. Someone who plays this way loses by not betting in situations where he has the best of it and by betting to build pots, and sometimes to thin the field. All reasons to bet. Checking and calling, or sometimes check-raising: these are the traits of a losing player. If he is winning based on this play, then he is playing with a bunch of idiots who try to bluff and push him around to much, and bet weak hands too often. You beat such a player by betting aggressively when you have the best of it, and taking free cards when you don't. He doesn't cost you by making you pay for your marginal and drawing hands. I'd love to be against a table full of players who mostly check and call and rarely put me to the test. | ||
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